Thoughts on the casting process so far and how it could be improved

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
But Dormammu is a CGI floating head with a pre-recorded voice actor. That's different from a live human actor being in two places at once.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
But Dormammu is a CGI floating head with a pre-recorded voice actor. That's different from a live human actor being in two places at once.
Still, it’s the closest we got for Cumberbatch regarding playing two different people in the same room.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
There are a lot of examples of actors who played their own identical twin. Jeremy Irons, Nicolas Cage, Bette Davis, Christian Bale, Edward Norton, Armie Hammer... https://geektyrant.com/news/25-actors-who-played-their-own-twin-ergt
That's not a problem, I've done it myself, on stage. But we do have to find a way to deal with the issue that concerns the Frame time and the earlier times. Maybe we have to cast a couple of younger twins for young Elrond and Elros.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of examples of actors who played their own identical twin. Jeremy Irons, Nicolas Cage, Bette Davis, Christian Bale, Edward Norton, Armie Hammer... https://geektyrant.com/news/25-actors-who-played-their-own-twin-ergt
That's not a problem, I've done it myself, on stage. But we do have to find a way to deal with the issue that concerns the Frame time and the earlier times. Maybe we have to cast a couple of younger twins for young Elrond and Elros.
Agreed. When we reach the end of the First Age, Elrond and Elros are in their fifties for Elves, where they would have completed puberty but not considered full grown for another fifty years. We’ll need another actor (or two if we use twins) to portray Elrond and Elros.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Elrond and Elros are half-elven, and thus mature at the mortal rate (ie, adults by their twenties). However, the timeline at the end of the First Age is a bit murky, so we will have some decisions to make about when they're born and when the War of Wrath happens.

It is quite possible we'll want 'young' Elrond and Elros for that Season, before switching to the adult actors in the Second Age.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Elrond and Elros are half-elven, and thus mature at the mortal rate (ie, adults by their twenties). However, the timeline at the end of the First Age is a bit murky, so we will have some decisions to make about when they're born and when the War of Wrath happens.

It is quite possible we'll want 'young' Elrond and Elros for that Season, before switching to the adult actors in the Second Age.
On dates for Elrond and Elros: they are born in 532 F.A., and the Third Kinslaying occurs in 538 when they are six. The War of Wrath takes place from 545 F.A. to 587 F.A., and the Host of Valinor departs Middle-Earth in 590 F.A.. Elrond and Elros are given the choice to be Elf or Man after the War of Wrath, which would make them 55-58 in Earth years. Perhaps we have them mature at 20 and keep them at that age or use the same actors until that time.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
That link is interesting reading.

I think we'll need both children and adults in the First Age, and in the early years of the Second Age before they part ways forever.

I'd still rather try to cast twins as actual twins when possible (Dior's sons, and kid Elros&Elrond), and try to find a look-alike for adult Elros. It's surely easier for real actors to interact believably and freely with each other instead of a computer graphic, especially when a third actor is simultaneously interacting with both twins.

Even though this is all hypothetical, it seems like having an actual stunt double stand in for one or the other and then changing their appearance with computers, would again allow more natural interaction than the other types of tricks. The whole idea is new to me, though.
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I have to point out that if this series were filmed chronologically, one season after another, it would be impossible NOT to recast some of our elvish or divine characters. The only way to avoid this is to film the entire series in one go, perhaps before even releasing any of it.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
LOL That's a good point... so should we simplify things by pretending actors won't change after we cast them? Then we can simply ignore it when they die or get old.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
The Execs are not going to post here on the forums. They will mostly confine their comments to the podcasts (though you can likely catch Corey Olsen in other venues, sharing Tolkien-related thoughts, with some overlap).

I do not feel the need to recast an actor who has died, but if the character appears in later seasons and someone would like to recast that particular actor/actress, we could do so. I think it's a case-by-case call.


I agree that 'disallowing' nominations that don't meet basic criteria involves some judgement calls and oversight that I'm not entirely sure we want to take on. Up until now, I have done most of the moderating of nominations, but that has simply consisted of preventing anyone from posting comments in nominations threads, or occasionally adding more data (such as links to imdb, age, or height) to a nomination that was lacking those details. I know that Haakon has also helped out with making sure there were not too many images posted in the nominations threads. I have NOT done any value judgement, and have allowed ANY nomination that met the basic criteria:
1) living actor
2) has an imdb page
3) not previously cast in this project

I think that, if we do have a 'casting sheet' that is Exec approved, we can have age and height restrictions, or special skills that a character must have (singing, dancing, fighting, etc). We can allow the Execs to make suggestions that aren't hard and fast rules, as well, and then see where the chips fall.

The easiest way to handle a nomination that does not meet the requirements on the casting sheet would be to then raise the point in the discussion forum, and, if need be, remove that nomination prior to voting. There have been several nominees that were *accidentally* left off the voting in prior seasons, but we've never excluded a nominee on purpose. I really hesitate to do that, but it could perhaps be grounds for discussion and someone voluntarily withdrawing a nominee if that person does not match the requirements in some way. Again, let's see if we can get the Execs to formalize their opinions prior to nominating and voting, and then go from there.
So, to get back to this discussion. Let's take a look at this season's work and where we are in that process. We're almost done with the outlines. Do we have enough information to suggest which characters will be prominent, and which of those that will need casting this season? Do the outlines tell us that, or will the work on the specific episodes reveal new ones?
If we know (more or less, then) how the list of new characters looks like, then I'd like to suggest that we ask the execs to say something quickly about the main and minor characters that will be introduced. (My guess is that we don't really know much about the frame casting, but I could be wrong.)
We should ask the execs the following:
1. What are the most important physical and/or psychological traits that the actor/actress should be able to convey?
2. Are there any specific skills needed (singing, for example)?
3. Are there any age and height restrictions?

So, if we ask them these questions, we know something more about what kind of people we're looking for. We may also have strong opinions about these things, but we can add those criteria after the execs have had their say. Then we can look for actors and actresses based on clearer criteria than we have before.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, good plan!

I *think* that this season, the goal is to discuss two episodes in one session, followed by a session on adaptation - characters, sets, special effects, costumes, music, etc.

If that turns out to be the case, then we'll have the opportunity to bring up such things the session after a character 'appears' in the show.

I have to throw in the disclaimer that, since we haven't gotten to the episode discussions yet, I don't know how this will work in practice, but I think the Execs would appreciate having those discussions as we go this season, rather than waiting to the end to just comment/respond to what we come up with.

I think your tentative character list in the other thread is a good starting point, but probably isn't the final version yet.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I don't think we're far enough along to know yet what minor characters we'll need. I know some of the minor characters I think we'll need, but the Execs will probably reject most of them.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Well, if we could explain that there’s a story for those characters, we would have to cast actors for them. But I think we will have the opportunity to introduce characters later on as well, so there’s no hurry. If the execs can comment on ten characters or so, this time, we have a good start.
 
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