Tom Bombadil Cameos
- Thread starter dietlbomb
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Marielle
Well-Known Member
No idea. But maybe we can have periodic episodes that refer back to Lenwe's people (though he is not long for this world) and the Ents? Just to remind people that, yes, they do still exist, and culture there is developing apace, independent from Beleriand. He could fit into those episodes. But how to have those not be completely intrusive...? No idea
amysrevenge
Well-Known Member
I have a concern with the notion of throwing it over to the left-behind people to check in on them - unless we establish early on a B (or more realistically a C or D or even E) story that involves them. I mean, we can check in on Lenwe a few times across S3, but only if there is a story going on with Lenwe that we can build and resolve across the appearances. Set it up in, say Ep2, followup in Ep 7, resolve in Ep 11. As an example.
Which is certainly doable, but it needs to be on the table right from the start of outlining for S3, so that appropriate places for it can be reserved.
Ultimately, the problem ends up being parallel to what we face in S2 - we don't want to throw back to Beleriand to check in on the Sindar, because we're busy dealing with Valinor stuff. It would feel like an unwanted interruption to follow up with Thingol and Cirdan while Feanor and Melkor are doing Momentous Things.
Which is certainly doable, but it needs to be on the table right from the start of outlining for S3, so that appropriate places for it can be reserved.
Ultimately, the problem ends up being parallel to what we face in S2 - we don't want to throw back to Beleriand to check in on the Sindar, because we're busy dealing with Valinor stuff. It would feel like an unwanted interruption to follow up with Thingol and Cirdan while Feanor and Melkor are doing Momentous Things.
I'm not against a Nandor connection in S3 but it risks being forced. We are going to have Ents and the people of Denethor in Beleriand though, and maybe they will communicate with the people staying with Lenwë, perhaps after the death of Denethor. - But I think the best way to involve Tom B would have to also include Ents somehow. Maybe it's not about a message to Lenwë from Beleriand but a message about Lenwë to his son. A group of Ents could come from the east and we could see Bombadil on their trail, in the background or something.
amysrevenge
Well-Known Member
The story of the Sylvan Elves justifying them being on the show could be the decision of some of them to break off and go on to Beleriand - in the PubSil, they just sort of show up. We can visit them a few times to set up the dissatisfaction and desire to move West.
The early Season 3 story with Lenwë is that his son Denethor splits off from him, leading a portion of their people into Beleriand to become the Green Elves. Once arriving in Beleriand, they settle in the lovely Ossiriand (a part of the world Treebeard waxes poetic about, so some of the ents perhaps came with Denethor? or arrive later). Then the orcs attack. The Green Elves have no metal weapons or armor. They are slaughtered, and Denethor is killed. This all happens in the first 4 episodes of Season 3, as Denethor has to be dead before Fëanor sets foot in Middle Earth and we've established that Morgoth does indeed have an army (though they won't fare so well against the well-equipped Noldor).
No doubt the migration of the Green Elves would include the Season 3 Bombadil cameo.
I agree that later seasons are a bit of an issue, but it's possible that Bombadil can travel a bit. Just because he's locked into his own land and won't leave those bounds in the 3rd Age doesn't mean he's always been that way. Perhaps his territory has shrunk, the way the Old Forest itself use to stretch all the way to Fangorn, but no longer.
If there is a season where he really, truly does not fit...we can leave out the cameo. Keep in mind that *FRAME* cameos are also an option. Season 4 will have a Bilbo-in-the-Shire-meeting-travelers frame, so having Bilbo meet Bombadil (or meet someone who met him) seems possible.
No doubt the migration of the Green Elves would include the Season 3 Bombadil cameo.
I agree that later seasons are a bit of an issue, but it's possible that Bombadil can travel a bit. Just because he's locked into his own land and won't leave those bounds in the 3rd Age doesn't mean he's always been that way. Perhaps his territory has shrunk, the way the Old Forest itself use to stretch all the way to Fangorn, but no longer.
If there is a season where he really, truly does not fit...we can leave out the cameo. Keep in mind that *FRAME* cameos are also an option. Season 4 will have a Bilbo-in-the-Shire-meeting-travelers frame, so having Bilbo meet Bombadil (or meet someone who met him) seems possible.
Marielle
Well-Known Member
True. I had honestly forgotten the Frames! *laughing at myself*
That opens up an interesting possibility. We do re-use individuals for the frame (Aragon, most obviously). If we put him in the Frame Narratives, we could show the growth of characters across seasons by them first scorning/humoring Bombadil, and then later on appreciating/respecting him.
That opens up an interesting possibility. We do re-use individuals for the frame (Aragon, most obviously). If we put him in the Frame Narratives, we could show the growth of characters across seasons by them first scorning/humoring Bombadil, and then later on appreciating/respecting him.
One fundamental thing I kind of overlooked...sorry (I realise this is what dietlomb meant all the time). He's supposed to be more or less tied to the area around the future Old Forest. We need to have a scene which shows that area....
So I think we have to show how Denethor takes a group of Nandor and leaves the place where they live (East of Misty Mts) - and maybe he takes a bunch of Ents with him - and then maybe a scene before they arrive in Beleriand, or perhaps just a montage of shots of them travelling westward, and Tom can be seen there.
I also think we should create a list of all Tom Bombadil cameos.
So I think we have to show how Denethor takes a group of Nandor and leaves the place where they live (East of Misty Mts) - and maybe he takes a bunch of Ents with him - and then maybe a scene before they arrive in Beleriand, or perhaps just a montage of shots of them travelling westward, and Tom can be seen there.
I also think we should create a list of all Tom Bombadil cameos.
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Apparently, it is my role in this project to make lists. Which is amusing, because I never do that in real life. But anyway....
Season 1: Do we have a TB cameo? There is potential for one in Episode 2, where the Ainur are gathered at Almaren for the first time. He could ignore the invitation and wander off. A more significant time for him to wander off would be during the debate after the destruction of the Lamps, but he's almost definitely not a character who was living at Almaren. Also, we have scenes of both Sauron and Oromë discovering the elves, and thus wandering through that part of Middle Earth. Either of them could see him or be seen by him from afar. It could be one of those 'is someone there?' moments and he vanishes. I have to go back and see if we decided on one.
Season 2: Episode 4, the migration of the Teleri. Olwë's party crosses (the future) Eriador, and sees someone in a blue coat.
Season 3: ??? Denethor son of Lenwë sees TB pulled into a river and he vanishes.
Season 4: ??? Men cross the mountains into Beleriand in this season. When Finrod reads their minds/memories, we could see a glimpse of our yellow-booted friend in the memories of Bëor's people.
Oh I can make a list (and I'm not a list maker either) but I wasn't sure where to put it so it can be easily accessible later, or what we'd said about season one. Great list, though!
Nicholas Palazzo
Well-Known Member
Marie... is it possible that you are coming to appreciate the wonder that is Google Docs?? 