Unalligned Characters

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
As i see it we have come to a point where we'll have to make up some secondary characters at a point, just because maybe otherwise some of our main characters will be alone and have no dialogue partners...

So i guess instead of inventing names we could use some characters from the legendarium who are yet unalligned and make up some background for them?

Ailios/ Gilfanon - this is an elf from the Eriol story, he lives on Tol Eressea so should be one of the Noldor exiles
Arminas - he is stated as having originally been of Angrods people, but he later obviously left his lord to stay with cirdans folk
Enerdhil - if he was a jewelsmith and possibly a pupil of feanors as i have supposed, we could put him in Curufins retinue, and make so up a connection to Celebrimbor
Evromord - another Elf from the Eriol story
Gelmir -another elf from Angrods folk who later ends up with cirdan
Gereth - an elf from ossiriand who rescues Elwing from the feanorians. I think he could be a Nando or a renegade from Celegorm or Maedhros folk
Gimli - the blind Gnome from lost tales whom Beren finds at minas tirith, if one would use him i guess he would either be a fingolfinian of finrods people or maybe of angrod and aegnors folk
Lindo - another eriol story elf, valwes son
Valwe - another eriol story elf, maybe Valwe and Lindo could be Feanorians?
Vaire - another eriol elf, lindos wife
Tulkastor - another eriol elf, vaires father
Narthseg - a lost tales gnome who betrays doriath to the dwarves. I have alrady suggested to use his name for a servant of Eol if we ever needed one, or perhaps a Feanorian?
Quennar - a feanorian loremaster, if we ever need a councilor-type of character for one of the brothers one could use this name
Ufedhin - another treacherous gnome from the early lt nauglamir story. I think his name could perhaps be used for a servant of Eol or the of the Feanorians if needed


Already alligned are:
Aranwe - voronwes father, almost certainly a follower of Turgon and a Fingolfinian
Edrahil - loyal follower of Finrod
Egalmoth - follower of Turgon
Elemmakil - captain of Gondolin, so Follower of Turgon
Findobar - well this was a name for Gil galad when he still was Fingons son, but if we need a follower of Fingon, one maybe could use this name?
Galdor of Gondolin - i guess this is a different Galdor than cirdans galdor, though maybe one could merge the characters or leace him out to avoid confusion
Gelmir -follower of Finrod
Guilin - follower of Finrod
Gwindor - follower of Finrod
Haldir - in one version elder brother of gilgalad and Finduilas, killed by orcs
Hendor - housecarle of Turgon
Inglor - possibly gildors father and a follower of Finrod
Legolas - elf of Gondolin, maybe we omit him to avoid confusion
Ornil - elf of nargothrond so possibly a Finrodian
Penlodh - elf of Gondolin so Turgonian
Pengolodh - i suppose also Turgonian
Salgant - turgon, gondolin

We still have the otherwisely umknown noldo heroes from the whetting spell: Saithnar, Loruin, Nargil, Gaurin, Ogbar, Rodrim... one could use those names , though i like to think of them as possible members of Finrods co pany, whom i imagine as the noldo version of the magnificent seven.

Or could some of the Gondolindrim elves have been turncoats of formerly other allegiance? I doubt Turgon would tolerate such people... otherwisely they could be quite interesting characters.

With arminas&Gelmir and Gereth at last i can see possible interesting sidestories..
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
These are good starting points! They could be Noldor but some could be Sindarin instead, especially those who we only know as Eresseans. We may have to adjust some of these names to properly fit into LotR-style Sindarin, I think (Gimli, Evromord, Ufedhin, and Narthseg look weird to me; some of the Eresseans have Quenya names). Do any of the Lost Tales names have known meanings?

Arminas and Gelmir - being among Angrod's folk puts them in Dorthonion with the House of Finarfin, so I wouldn't call them unaligned. They "have wandered far since the Dagor Bragollach" but don't explain why they ended up in the Falas instead of Nargothrond, so we might have to explain that.

Enerdhil is a man of Gondolin, so he's one of Turgon's people. He needs to be in Gondolin to give the Elessar to Idril.

Gereth - A Nando Guest-elf in Doriath would be my preference. It'll be useful to have a name to go with the "faithful servants" who save Elwing. Looks like a feminine name, and we want female characters too.
Gimli - Can we justify this guy being one of Fingolfin's folk and still make him a prisoner of Tol-in-Gaurhoth? Then we'd have somebody in Mithrim.
Vaire & Tulkastor - I want to avoid giving any Elves names identical or nearly identical to Vala names. The Elves didn't use such words for everyday use, once they had applied them to a Vala. Tulkas is in Vanyarin-style Quenya anyway. I suggest that we could rename "Vaire" to Nethril "*web-weaver" instead.
Narthseg (> Narthaseg?) & Ufedhin - I like using these for gloomy servants of Eol, but they could be among the Feanorian attackers of Doriath instead.
Quennar - I'm good with Quennar being Feanorian (he'll need a Sindarin name since Quennar is Quenya). I didn't know he was explicitly Feanorian in the books.
Findobar - I like the suggestion to use this name for a non-royal follower of Fingon. Likewise using Haldir for a non-royal Elf of Nargothrond (Sinda or Noldo)

Torhir Ifant is another Noldorin (or Sindarin?) loremaster. Like Quennar he's just a name without a story, as far as I know.
Erestor in Rivendell has no stated origin, that I know of, so he could be a Sinda or a Noldo from any house's host.

Quennar seems to be the only Noldo on this list who definitely needs to be a Calaquende, so the others could be born in Middle-earth if we want. Torhir should definitely survive the First Age. If we want the Eresseans from the Lost Tales to wind up in Eressea, they ought to survive too. Pengolodh definitely survives the First Age.
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
So potentially we have these names for non-royal side characters. Women in italic:

Mithrim Sindar: Annael [is he married?]
Dorthonion & Tol Sirion: Meril and Eldalote (wives); Gelmir 1, Arminas, Guilin and sons (Gwindor + Gelmir 2), Inglor, Gildor Inglorion
Dorthonion, Tol Sirion, or Sindar of Nargothrond: Edrahil, Haldir, Halmir; Ornil (or a Feanorian who goes to Nargothrond?)
Gondolin (Turgon):* Ecthelion, Glorfindel, 'Rog', Talagand/'Salgant', Egalmoth, Duilin, Penlod, Galdor 2, 'Legolas', Enerdhil, Pengolodh, Aranwe, Voronwe, Elemmakil, Hendor, Meleth
Mithrim (Fingolfin + Fingon): Findobar/Finbor, Erien
Feanorians (any): Quennar; [+ unnamed wives (and children???) of Maglor and Caranthir]
Feanorians (not in Nargothrond) or Eol's servants: Narthaseg/'Narthseg', 'Ufedhin'
Doriath, incl. guests: Celeborn, Mablung, Beleg, Daeron, Saeros, Oropher, Nellas, Galadhon, Galathil, Gereth, Nielthi, [Nimloth's unnamed mother], [Saeros' angry relatives]
Falathrim (Cirdan): Galdor 1, [Voronwe's unnamed mother]
Laegelrim/Laiquendi: Evranin. (the name Lindis is also available)
Elves anywhere: Torhir, Erestor, Faniel, 'Gimli' (a Noldo), Ailios/Gilfanon, Evromord, Valwe, 'Tulkastor', Lindo, Nethril/'Vaire', 'Saithnar', Loruin, Nargil, Gaurin, 'Ogbar', 'Rodrim'
Elves or Men?: Aerandir, Erellont, Falathar

*Some folks of Gondolin, even one of the lords, could be from Fingon&Fingolfin's forces who joined Gondolin during the retreat from the Nirnaeth.

I think people like Legolas, Gimli, and Galdor 2 don't need to be omitted. We can just rename them.

Edit: I forgot Meleth, the nurse of Earendil. (I don't know if royal Elves give their children and foster-children entirely over to nurses and tutors to raise, or have a personal part in raising them. We'll have to decide on that. I'm in favor of 'mostly-personally' both because the trope of royals mostly ignoring their own children is gross, and if Elves are too busy with war to raise their own kids, then they won't have any.)

Edit 2: I'm just going to keep this list up-to-date with whatever additional names are unearthed or suggested.
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I have let out Doriath so far because i thought Thingols court is already pretty well represented,but yes all 8f tbose whom you have mentioned with the possible exception of Gereth who might be a Nando.

Something i have forgotten but might be interesting:unnamed wives!

I think Jrrt mentions Maglor, Caranthir and Curufin are married and possibly have children, though none of these are mentioned by name. I think we silently have proposed these stayed in Valinor, but that need not neccessarily be true, they could have noldo, or even Sinda or Nando wives if i think of it...
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Curufin's wife did stay in Valinor. Tolkien said nothing about Maglor and Caranthir's wives, though. We don't even know if they had children. I do wonder what Sinda would marry a Kinslaying son of Feanor, though...

In my headcanon Maglor's wife and children stayed in Valinor, like Nerdanel. But in SilmFilm that would just make them non-characters.

I will add in the wives to my lists! And Erien, the name of Fingon's deleted/nonexistant daughter. And Faniel, Finwe's deleted/nonexistant 3rd daughter.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Other thoughts: Why is an Elf named Ifant at all? That means "aged". Maybe we just call him Torhir. (The same way that Quennar's second name Onotimo "the counter" need not be mentioned.)
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Yes, must be an old elf then... though the name hints towards a doriathrin Elf I think.Or we make Torhir one of the Edain if we needed a mannish Loremaster in some later season,

Anyway i see some interesting hooks for possible stories we could tell here.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Maybe he doesn't acquire the nickname Ifant until much later, and he's just young Torhir for now.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Aerandir, Falathar and Erellont could be Falathrim elves... or the could be Edain,though i prefer Elves.
Just in case Cirdan needs another co- player

I have mentioned Evranin as a nando of Ossiriand, if we ever need one

Ilverin littleheart -possibl born in gondolin, could be a playfellow for earendil if we ever need one

Meleth is idrils handmaid/friend at gondolin, she could be noldomor falathrim

Nielthi melians maid and friend in gondolin, i think we chose we didnt need her because the bestfriend-role is given already to galadriel
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I had somehow assumed that Aerandir, Erellont, and Falathar were Mortals. But looking in the books I can't see any evidence for that, or any suggestion what they were. Huh. Well they could be Falathrim or Men then. Aerandir and Falathar have the sort of names that only parents living by the sea* would give people, so if they're Mortal they must have been born at the Havens of Sirion.

*And also Tuor.

Ilverin always seemed to me somebody who was born in Eressea. Voronwe doesn't come across as somebody leaving his family behind in the story of Tuor, or looking forward to reuniting with a family in Gondolin. And after the fall of the City, I think Elves would avoid having more children.

By the way thanks for finding the name Talagand. I never would have caught that.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well just an idea... as i said i was brainstorming, and i think if any elf children would have been born at the time it would have been in gondolin, maybe after voronwes return.i think littleheart mentions he had seen the nauglamir and so i preyumed he had at some point been to Doriath or seen thingol... but Of course... LT myth, old myth.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
I have mentioned Evranin as a nando of Ossiriand, if we ever need one.
We may!

Most recently, it has been suggested that Celeborn could have a sister among the Green Elves of Ossiriand. Evranin could be her husband and the father of Nimloth, who would not be introduced until after Beren and Lúthien move there.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well... Evranin is a girl. Tolkien names do not work the way that we simply can say, well Galathil is a female and Evranin is a dude now.

Sometimes they do, but mostly they don't.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I had a thought.
If we do like Arnorion suggested and have Oropher marry a woman distantly related to Lenwe, could Evranin be her name?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
By the way, we have mentioned the feanorians unnamed wives... Maglor, Curufin and Caranthir were married... do you think one of them would have married a green elf or Avar (of eols kind?)? I mean they live in the neighbourhood after all...
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
By the way, we have mentioned the feanorians unnamed wives... Maglor, Curufin and Caranthir were married... do you think one of them would have married a green elf or Avar (of eols kind?)? I mean they live in the neighbourhood after all...
Caranthir? Not a chance, given his remarks about Thingol being a “Dark Elf”. Curufin is already married back in Valinor since we’ve cast Celebrimbor, who is apparently an adult by the Rebellion of the Noldor. Maybe Maglor?

By the way, there’s a theory out there that Tauriel from The Hobbit films is related to Feanor via Maglor, since only Feanor’s sons Maedhros, Amrod and Amras, along with their mother and grandfather are known to have red hair amongst the Elves.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
The open-mindedness of the House of Finarfin towards marrying non-Noldor should probably be seen in contrast to the Fëanorean opinion that marrying Vanyar and Teleri is suspect. I would find it difficult to see any of Fëanor's sons marrying an elf in Middle Earth, though Celegorm does at least consider the possibility of marrying Lúthien.

Perhaps Maglor, as he's maybe less of a jerk than the others, but I'm not sure I really see that happening, either. On one level, I can't see any of them marrying post-Oath, so I figured some were married already, but seeing as how Maglor's wife (for instance) hasn't been part of this story yet, it's quite possible to have him marry in Middle Earth and introduce her now. But why wouldn't she just be part of the Host of Fëanoreans?
 
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