What is Sauron doing?

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
In the First Age, Sauron is largely absent apart from an 10-11 year period from the Dagor Bragollach to Beren and Luthien; he's described as becoming a powerful sorcerer when he takes Minas Tirith in the wake of the Dagor Bragollach and after Huan and Luthien beat him, he disappears. What should we have him do in between the Dagor Aglareb to the Dagor Bragollach and after Beren and Luthien? Does he learn more skills under Morgoth until the Dagor Bragollach? I've thought about having him go out and make raids on the Siege of Angband and possible Sindar communities, sometimes for capture, sometimes to kill the populace, since the Sindar are the ones that give him the moniker "Gorthaur the Cruel". Maybe he's a boogeyman like Michael Myers, acting all stealthy, spying, tricks elves into thinking he's their friend, family member or ally and then strikes.

Kinda like this, minus the final girl.



Thoughts?
 
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During Mythmoot, I was having a conversation with someone who speculated that perhaps Morgoth blamed Sauron for the loss of his Silmaril to Beren and Luthien. After all, had he stopped the two of them like he was supposed to, this would not have happened. Perhaps Morgoth put Sauron on the outs, or even tortured Sauron due to this percieved failure on Sauron's part.

This could be one of the reasons he was willing to consider abandoning evil after the War of Wrath. He may have just needed time to recover, and later figured out what he was doing.

At some point, he has to discover Mount Doom. It seems that the volcano existed, and that Sauron put it to use. Maybe he does that during this gap time? Not setting up Mordor, but finding something he can found a Dark Realm around?
 
During Mythmoot, I was having a conversation with someone who speculated that perhaps Morgoth blamed Sauron for the loss of his Silmaril to Beren and Luthien. After all, had he stopped the two of them like he was supposed to, this would not have happened. Perhaps Morgoth put Sauron on the outs, or even tortured Sauron due to this percieved failure on Sauron's part.

This could be one of the reasons he was willing to consider abandoning evil after the War of Wrath. He may have just needed time to recover, and later figured out what he was doing.

At some point, he has to discover Mount Doom. It seems that the volcano existed, and that Sauron put it to use. Maybe he does that during this gap time? Not setting up Mordor, but finding something he can found a Dark Realm around?
Certainly very interesting for Sauron to have found Mount Doom during this time.
 
Anyone have any ideas of what Sauron is doing before the Dagor Bragollach? He goes unmentioned for large swathes of page between the beginning of the First Age and the Dagor Bragollach when he takes Tol Sirion?
 
He could be the fake Amlach at the council where some men decide to go back east. In general, he could be sowing dissent between Men and Elves. Also, his program of capturing and releasing Elves is probably still going on.
 
I actually have an idea for one such capture of an Elf, perhaps he cannot go inside a place, but he can persuade someone to leave with him... and they don't show up again. It's inspired by the Joyce Carol Oates short story "Where are you going, Where have you been?".

Thoughts?
 
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I actually have an idea for one such capture of an Elf, perhaps he cannot go inside a place, but he can persuade someone to leave with him... and they don't show up again. It's inspired by the Joyce Carol Oates short story "Where are you going, Where have you been?".

Thoughts?
I really like Oates' descriptions of how Connie fights against Arnold's spell in the story but is eventually overcome and lured out. Maybe, instead of Sauron luring someone away without entering a dwelling, it could be Thuringwethil, which would play on the trope of Vampires not being able to enter a home without an invitation.
 
We may have the opportunity to do something with this, but it is awfully specific. I'll keep it in mind as we start to work through seasons 5 and 6.
 
Hopefully, we'll be able to work what's going on elsewhere in Beleriand alongside Beren and Luthien.
Most of the events during the events of Beren and Luthien concern births; Turin is born in FA 464, Brandir in FA 465, and Urwen in FA 466. Elsewhere in Beleriand we have an offensive in Hithlum in FA 462 where Galdor the Tall is killed and Hurin becomes Lord of Dor-Lomin. And that's it. It would probably have to be in Season 5 since Sauron would be preoccupied in central Beleriand trying to hunt the outlaws of Dorthonion and forcing Beren out after four years for Season 6. There's not much people left after that point to lure.

If I am doing this plot line, I'll need a new alias for Sauron.
 
What do you mean?
That I feel like Sauron should be doing more as far as fighting his own battles. I was never really comfortable with how he freezes Maedhros’ soldiers in place back in Season 3 and let his lackeys kill them.
 
Remember that Sauron's story is the longest arc that we are telling, so his movements are incremental rather than leaps, and it has to be many things together that add up to a change for him. We should be able to see the seeds of what's to come, but we can't get there too fast.

So, naturally, the Sauron of Seasons 1-5 will have an arc and grow and change...but he will still be very different from the Necromancer of Dol Guldor or the tyrant of Mordor or Annatar giver of gifts who cons Celebrimbor and Ar-Pharazon. That's a long ways off yet. What we are currently building towards is his stint as Thû.

Season 1 Sauron (Mairon) is a Maia of Aulë who helps build the Lamps, and is troubled by Manwë's wishy-washy leadership. He feels the decision to go to Valinor is a cop out, and his frustration with Manwë's live-and-let-live attitude leaves a door open for Melkor to seduce him. And Melkor's approach to Mairon is very much a seduction - the door is open, he can leave at any time, etc. Mairon is attracted to Melkor's fearless use of power. The moment of truth comes when it is Mairon who first comes upon the location of the newly awakened Elves. Will he report this news to Manwë in Valinor or to Melkor in Utumno? He chooses Melkor. In payment, he is given command of the secret fortress Angband (Melkor dwells in the palace of Utumno, recall).

Season 2 Sauron (still calling himself Mairon) finds himself in a losing power struggle with the balrogs - Melkor's other loyal servants who survived the sack of Utumno in the War to Begin All Wars. Gothmog despises him, and mocks him. Mairon returns the sentiment, seeing Gothmog as a brute with no finesse and no vision. Mairon builds up his own allies - this is where we meet Thuringwethil and Tevildo, and here is where Mairon creates Draugluin with his first successful? venture into necromancy. There are also captive elves in Angband, so this is Mairon the Hunter, trying to convert the fallen elves into loyal followers of Melkor. Mairon is only moderately successful in Season 2 - the balrogs soundly win a round in their ongoing dispute when they are the ones to rescue Melkor from Ungoliant, solidifying their place as Melkor's most trusted servants. Also, the Super Secret Necromantic Orc Project is only of middling success - Mairon has corrupted them, but not achieved his final goal. But he does have loyal underlings of his own, now, and is not alone in Angband. He has revealed himself to be the most creatively-minded of Morgoth's servants. His path-towards-evil has shown him willing to be cruel in service to an end goal. He's a dispassionate ends-justify-the-means guy, but he's not gleefully cruel the way Tevildo (or the balrogs) can be.

Season 3 Sauron (as Gothmog now calls him) starts at a disadvantage - Gothmog is Morgoth's favored, and the SSNOP is taken away from him and handed over to Boldog...who is under Gothmog's command. So, he must earn back Melkor's respect and prove his usefulness, while still distancing himself from Gothmog's senseless cruelty. He is well aware of Melkor's hatred of the elves, and sets out to destroy them as a way back into Melkor's good graces(?) - besides, elves who refuse to serve Melkor are useless anyway. He recruits the spiders who eventually attack Doriath by offering them good food to eat, and he orchestrates the werewolf attack down the coast that annihilates Círdan's havens. Until the arrival of the Noldor, he's been quite successful at the conquest of Beleriand. Then Celegorm's cavalry (and later the rising of the Sun) put a serious damper on that. Still, he manages to treat with the Fëanoreans, and arrange the betrayal and capture of Maedhros by promising to return a silmaril. In this negotiation, we see his wiliness (which he will use against many foes to come), and we also see him use his power as a Maia through song - the song of power that immobilizes Maedhros while the troll army decimates Maedhros' elf army. His goal is still to bring all of Middle-earth under Melkor's sway, so the mightiest of the Ainur can order the world how he likes. But by now he certainly recognizes Melkor's deep anger, and may be beginning to recognize that there is a bit more annihilation in Melkor's plan than he originally signed up for.

Season 4 Sauron (still insisting that his own followers call him Mairon) is left in Angband with a disgruntled Gothmog while Melkor leaves (again), but this time he has a plan while Gothmog doesn't really have much of one - so his goal is clear; to achieve something useful before Melkor comes back. And so he starts spying (with the help of Thuringwethil) in the hopes of rooting out the Noldor's secrets. He sows disharmony through song at the Mereth Aderthad (though he is thwarted by Lúthien). He elicits a confession of the kinslaying from Edhellos, and then offers her to Melkor as a test subject for the Spell of Bottomless Dread. He is poised to launch the full scale version of the catch-and-release program as the season comes to an end - he has captive elves, he has seen what Melkor can do to break their spirits, and while he doesn't have the same ability, he can make use of something similar but milder that merely bends the elves' will to his own. His treatment of Edhellos is not the first time we've seen Mairon be cruel, but it is a much more calculated cruelty than the incidental cruelty involved in the creation of Draugluin. It's still very much goal-oriented, but it's a step past the capture of Maedhros.

Season 6 Sauron will bring us the Thû from the Beren and Lúthien story - one who will use a shade of Gorlim's wife to trick and ensnare him, and one who will transform into a werewolf to attack Huan, and one who will engage in a duel of song against Finrod - and win. The sorcerer who holds the Isle of Werewolves and keeps a bunch of elven prisoners in the basement.

So, Season 5 has to get us there. We're mostly poised to launch this Thû. We need to invest some more time with Annael in the catch-and-release program, and we do have to have him conquer Minas Tirith.


That's an overview of who Mairon/Sauron is and what he has done and where he is in his descent down the path to evil overlord. He's...not very far along it yet. He's still a True Believer in Melkor, and he's still doing things that are evil for the sake of the results, not because he necessarily enjoys being evil. He's clever and wily and the type of person who plans out long cons. He's insightful, and he exploits the weaknesses he finds. But that's like someone saying, hey, if you're dumb enough to let me con you, you deserve to lose your money. Not exactly irredeemably evil. Yet.


Now....to focus on your concerns, Ange1e4e5. You did express dissatisfaction with Sauron using song rather than brute force to show his power. But this is Tolkien's world - and here, song is the mightiest power available. Singing doesn't have to be weak and pansy. Was it weak when Peter Jackson had Saruman use chanting to bring down an avalanche on the Fellowship? Wasn't that a better demonstration of Saruman's power than the silly wizard duel with staffs that he and Gandalf engaged in? There are other types of horror than simply slasher movies. So, sure, a villain can just physically hunt down and chop up their victims. But...true suspense usually creates fear by focusing on something other than that. There are no slasher monsters in The Haunting of Hill House. And I would say that that is overall quite a scary show! There are some jump scares and some ghosts, but what creates the fear is the sense of powerlessness - that there is no way to fight back, and you're trapped and the outcome is inevitable despite your useless struggles. Every single horror film where someone is in a darkened room and there's something in there with them -- *that's* what we're going for when Sauron confronts Maedhros. He holds him immobile so he cannot fight. He can struggle, but he can't even turn around and look at what's behind him. So, he has to listen to his entire army being slaughtered by trolls...and he can't even look, let alone fight with them. He's completely impotent. Now, tell me truly, do you honestly think it would be a more powerful scene if Sauron conked Maedhros on the head and left him unconscious on the ground while all that happened? If he physically immobilized him rather than magically doing so?


I understand that you do not want Sauron to appear to be a weak character. And I agree with you! Sauron should not be weak. But I think we have different definitions of what makes someone weak. You have compared him to Joffrey on Game of Thrones. Joffrey is all bluster and no ability to back it up. The opposite of Joffrey isn't the Mountain, though - it's Tywin Lannister. Tywin doesn't do much fighting personally, now does he? He writes a lot of letters. He sees his opponents' weaknesses and exploits them. He sees the most straightforward way to accomplish his goal, and sets everything in motion to make it happen. What he says, goes - because he can back it up. I would definitely argue that our portrayal of Sauron has a lot more in common with Tywin Lannister than it does with his grandson Joffrey.

So, no - I don't see any reason for Sauron to personally slay an elf at this point in the story. He has nothing to prove, and no reason to do so unless it serves some purpose. Nor do I think that him striking an elf down will make him look any more powerful than he already does.
 
I think I can get behind this. I think I have a problem with bad guys who have other people do their fighting for them.

As for the Thu, I’ve been developing the idea of a one-episode plot line with Sauron luring an individual elf (I even went and made a pseudonym for him) away and doing... something to them. He has to be invited in, so he lures them out.
 
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