Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Gandalf asks Strider, "But what do you guess is the reason?" (for 'all things being silent for miles around'). Aragorn does not give a guess as to the reason, though he elaborates that he has, 'a sense of watchfulness, and of fear, that I have never had here before'.
What might have caused this sense of watchfulness and fear among the birds and beasts?
Corey explained why he thought it was unlikely to be the Company, the Ring, or the Crebain, which caused the watchful and fearful silence. I agree.
I can think of two possible explanations:
1. The Nazgul (or one or some of them).
2. The sudden attention of Sauron towards the land of Hollin.
Timeline:
January 8: The Company reach the borders of Hollin just at about sunrise. In the morning, after breakfast, Strider notices the silence. Some time before noon (the sun was still rising up from the East) Sam spots the crebain in the distance. At dusk the Company sets out towards the Redhorn gate.
January 9: In the cold chill hour before the first stir of dawn, Frodo feels a shadow pass over the high stars, and shivers. Aragorn says that, 'it was moving fast, and not with the wind'.
The 'shadow passing over the high stars' might have been a Nazgul flying on a Fell Beast (sounds like one?). But this occurs some 20 hours after Strider notices the silence. Could Nazgul have caused the silence? Or, did they only arrive (if arrive one of them did) afterwards?
Hypothesis:
On, or no more than a few days before, the morning of Jan 8, the Nazgul (or one or some of them) arrived back in Mordor (after being un-cloaked at the Ford of Bruinen), and reported to Sauron. Now Sauron started bending his mind and will towards searching for the location of the Ring again. Was it still in Rivendell? Had it left? Where could it be? Was it on the morning of Jan 8 that his thought and attention turned towards Hollin? Did the detection, somehow, of that baleful gaze cause the birds and beasts to fall into a watchful and fearful silence? Was it the will of Sauron which caused the Crebain to arrive over Hollin from Dunland a few hours later to spy out the land? Was it to further check on Hollin that a Nazgul possibly flew over some 20 hours later? Was it Sauron's suspicions about Hollin which caused the Wargs to arrive from over the Mountains and attack the Company 5 days later?
Distances and Logistics:
Northern Dunland (Aragorn says the Crebain are native to Dunland) to Northern Hollin - 80 miles; The headwaters of the River Gladden (Aragorn says, 'the wargs have come west of the Mountains, so let's assume via the Gladden Pass) to Northern Hollin - 100 miles; Barad-Dur (whence a Nazgul might have acquired a Fell Beast and been dispatched) to Northern Hollin - 500 miles. Fords of Bruinen to Barad-Dur 640 miles (via the Gladden Pass) or 840 miles (via down Bruinen to Tharbad and thence Gap of Rohan).
For the Crebain to journey from Northern Dunland to Northern Hollin in say 3 hours they would have needed to fly at 26 mph. Sam observes that they were 'flying at great speed', so it seems possible that they could have been tasked when Sauron turned his attention to Hollin and Hollin went silent, and arrived a few hours later. For a Nazgul to fly from Barad-Dur to Northern Hollin in about 20 hours the Fell Beast would need to fly at about 25 mph. Easily possible. Could include a later dispatch, or rest stops. For Wargs to travel from east of the Mountains to west (via the Gladden Pass) in 4-5 days would require averaging about 25 miles per day. Should be possible. If the Nazgul were uncloaked at the Ford on October 20, and reached Barad-Dur soon before Jan 8, they would have needed to average 14 miles per day (via the Gladden) or 18 miles per day (via the Gap). Both possible.
So, could the silence of the birds and beasts in Hollin on the morning of Jan 8 have been caused by the Nazgul reporting back to Sauron soon before Jan 8, Sauron turning his attention to Hollin (as well as other possible locations), this attention being detected by the birds and beasts, causing silence, watchfulness, and fear? Could Sauron have dispatched Crebain, Nazgul and Wargs to Hollin at the same time? The logistics work.
There are, however, some problems and issues.
The implication is that Sauron could not communicate with the Nazgul at a distance (or he would have learned what was going on in late October, and sent spies to the borders of Rivendell much earlier). Fair enough. I can think of no evidence that Sauron and Nazgul could communicate at distance. But, if Sauron cannot communicate at distance with Nazgul, how could he communicate over distance to dispatch Crebain from Dunland and Wargs from the Vale of Anduin to Hollin?
So, I like the idea that the Nazgul take about 2 and 1/2 months to get back to Barad-Dur after their disaster at the Fords. Sauron then decides to launch spies and search all around and towards Rivendell. He directs his attention to Hollin on the morning of Jan 8. That causes the silence. He dispatches spies. They arrive somewhat later.
But, how does he dispatch spies (Crebain and Wargs) at a distance?
Any other ideas on what causes the silence in Hollin on Jan 8?
What might have caused this sense of watchfulness and fear among the birds and beasts?
Corey explained why he thought it was unlikely to be the Company, the Ring, or the Crebain, which caused the watchful and fearful silence. I agree.
I can think of two possible explanations:
1. The Nazgul (or one or some of them).
2. The sudden attention of Sauron towards the land of Hollin.
Timeline:
January 8: The Company reach the borders of Hollin just at about sunrise. In the morning, after breakfast, Strider notices the silence. Some time before noon (the sun was still rising up from the East) Sam spots the crebain in the distance. At dusk the Company sets out towards the Redhorn gate.
January 9: In the cold chill hour before the first stir of dawn, Frodo feels a shadow pass over the high stars, and shivers. Aragorn says that, 'it was moving fast, and not with the wind'.
The 'shadow passing over the high stars' might have been a Nazgul flying on a Fell Beast (sounds like one?). But this occurs some 20 hours after Strider notices the silence. Could Nazgul have caused the silence? Or, did they only arrive (if arrive one of them did) afterwards?
Hypothesis:
On, or no more than a few days before, the morning of Jan 8, the Nazgul (or one or some of them) arrived back in Mordor (after being un-cloaked at the Ford of Bruinen), and reported to Sauron. Now Sauron started bending his mind and will towards searching for the location of the Ring again. Was it still in Rivendell? Had it left? Where could it be? Was it on the morning of Jan 8 that his thought and attention turned towards Hollin? Did the detection, somehow, of that baleful gaze cause the birds and beasts to fall into a watchful and fearful silence? Was it the will of Sauron which caused the Crebain to arrive over Hollin from Dunland a few hours later to spy out the land? Was it to further check on Hollin that a Nazgul possibly flew over some 20 hours later? Was it Sauron's suspicions about Hollin which caused the Wargs to arrive from over the Mountains and attack the Company 5 days later?
Distances and Logistics:
Northern Dunland (Aragorn says the Crebain are native to Dunland) to Northern Hollin - 80 miles; The headwaters of the River Gladden (Aragorn says, 'the wargs have come west of the Mountains, so let's assume via the Gladden Pass) to Northern Hollin - 100 miles; Barad-Dur (whence a Nazgul might have acquired a Fell Beast and been dispatched) to Northern Hollin - 500 miles. Fords of Bruinen to Barad-Dur 640 miles (via the Gladden Pass) or 840 miles (via down Bruinen to Tharbad and thence Gap of Rohan).
For the Crebain to journey from Northern Dunland to Northern Hollin in say 3 hours they would have needed to fly at 26 mph. Sam observes that they were 'flying at great speed', so it seems possible that they could have been tasked when Sauron turned his attention to Hollin and Hollin went silent, and arrived a few hours later. For a Nazgul to fly from Barad-Dur to Northern Hollin in about 20 hours the Fell Beast would need to fly at about 25 mph. Easily possible. Could include a later dispatch, or rest stops. For Wargs to travel from east of the Mountains to west (via the Gladden Pass) in 4-5 days would require averaging about 25 miles per day. Should be possible. If the Nazgul were uncloaked at the Ford on October 20, and reached Barad-Dur soon before Jan 8, they would have needed to average 14 miles per day (via the Gladden) or 18 miles per day (via the Gap). Both possible.
So, could the silence of the birds and beasts in Hollin on the morning of Jan 8 have been caused by the Nazgul reporting back to Sauron soon before Jan 8, Sauron turning his attention to Hollin (as well as other possible locations), this attention being detected by the birds and beasts, causing silence, watchfulness, and fear? Could Sauron have dispatched Crebain, Nazgul and Wargs to Hollin at the same time? The logistics work.
There are, however, some problems and issues.
The implication is that Sauron could not communicate with the Nazgul at a distance (or he would have learned what was going on in late October, and sent spies to the borders of Rivendell much earlier). Fair enough. I can think of no evidence that Sauron and Nazgul could communicate at distance. But, if Sauron cannot communicate at distance with Nazgul, how could he communicate over distance to dispatch Crebain from Dunland and Wargs from the Vale of Anduin to Hollin?
So, I like the idea that the Nazgul take about 2 and 1/2 months to get back to Barad-Dur after their disaster at the Fords. Sauron then decides to launch spies and search all around and towards Rivendell. He directs his attention to Hollin on the morning of Jan 8. That causes the silence. He dispatches spies. They arrive somewhat later.
But, how does he dispatch spies (Crebain and Wargs) at a distance?
Any other ideas on what causes the silence in Hollin on Jan 8?