Why does Frodo change his attitude to adventure?

Darren Grey

Darren Grey

Active Member
In Ep 189/190 the line was discussed about Frodo's desire to stay in Rivendell with Bilbo. In particular it was discussed how this likely isn't a Ring temptation, since it involves the company of Bilbo instead of striking out on his own as in other temptations. But that leaves the question - why does he have this desire? Why is it so different than his previous longing for adventure?

Much of the early chapters establish the inner struggle in Frodo between going off in Bilbo's footsteps vs staying comfortable in the Shire he loves. This new desire is almost neither - it's not adventure, and it's not at home, no matter how homely Elrond's house is. Is it just about wanting to be by his uncle's side then? Did he never have a true desire for adventure?

Or this is as a result of the adventures (and suffering) that Frodo has already experienced? Does he have weary feet already?
 
I think his sudden longing to stay with Bilbo in Rivendell is a reaction to knowing he will have to take the Ring to Mordor. He has already been injured almost to wraithification by a Morgul blade. It's "I don't want to go on this hopeless journey into darkness, I wish I could just stay here with Bilbo." Don't forget, he hasn't seen Bilbo (as I recall, a first and second cousin, not an uncle) in 17 years and he loves him and would like to just relax with him. It's like not wanting to go out into a winter storm from a cozy home with a fire in the fireplace and people who are dear to you, though on a different scale.

And this isn't an adventure he's about to volunteer for; this is a grim, serious, and likely deadly job that is almost impossible from the start. As for his earlier ambivalence, Bilbo says to Gandalf before he leaves Bag End that Frodo would go with him, but he's not ready yet, he's still in love with the Shire. That's a pretty good analysis of Frodo before he learns about the Ring's history and power, including its power over him.
 
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Well, if the Ring is sentient and aware, could it be influencing Frodo? "I don't want to die! I don't want to get thrown in the fire! Let's stay in Rivendell where my master can collect me later! Or, let's start a big fight and argument over who will carry the Ring if I can get Frodo to refuse!"

I can see reasons why the Ring, if sentient and aware, might want to influence Frodo.

But I don't think the Ring is sentient and aware, so I agree with Rachel.
 
Rachel Port said:
Bilbo (as I recall, a first and second cousin, not an uncle)
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Gosh, that was a silly mistake on my part! I guess Bilbo just has that uncle feel in moments like this...

Flammifer said:
Well, if the Ring is sentient and aware, could it be influencing Frodo?
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Even if the Ring were sentient (and I agree that it's not) I would imagine its thought process would be "Yeah, sure, bring me to Mordor you fools!" Sauron is noted for his arrogance at various points. If he heard of this quest at the start he would likely laugh at it and be utterly certain it would fail.
 
Darren Grey said:
Gosh, that was a silly mistake on my part! I guess Bilbo just has that uncle feel in moments like this...


Even if the Ring were sentient (and I agree that it's not) I would imagine its thought process would be "Yeah, sure, bring me to Mordor you fools!" Sauron is noted for his arrogance at various points. If he heard of this quest at the start he would likely laugh at it and be utterly certain it would fail.
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I think that would be Sauron's thought process, but, would it be the Ring's? Are the Ring and Sauron identical? In this case, the quest (if successful) threatens a sentient Ring with death. It does not threaten Sauron with death, as far as he knows, at least according to Gandalf. "(Sauron) believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done." So, Sauron believed that the One had been destroyed, but that did not destroy him. He presumably has no notion that destroying the One will destroy him, until it comes as an unpleasant surprise near the end. He is far less threatened by a successful quest than the Ring is.
 
In Book 2 Chapter 1 when Frodo is looking at himself in the mirror:
Looking in a mirror he was startled to see a much thinner reflection of himself than he remembered: it looked remarkably like the young nephew of Bilbo who used to go tramping with his uncle in the Shire
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So there is textual evidence for this being the way that they thought of the relationship, even if the truth was slightly different.
 
Flammifer said:
Well, if the Ring is sentient and aware, could it be influencing Frodo? "I don't want to die! I don't want to get thrown in the fire! Let's stay in Rivendell where my master can collect me later! Or, let's start a big fight and argument over who will carry the Ring if I can get Frodo to refuse!"
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Don't think of an elephant.
 
Flammifer said:
I think that would be Sauron's thought process, but, would it be the Ring's? Are the Ring and Sauron identical? In this case, the quest (if successful) threatens a sentient Ring with death. It does not threaten Sauron with death, as far as he knows, at least according to Gandalf. "(Sauron) believed that the One had perished; that the Elves had destroyed it, as should have been done." So, Sauron believed that the One had been destroyed, but that did not destroy him. He presumably has no notion that destroying the One will destroy him, until it comes as an unpleasant surprise near the end. He is far less threatened by a successful quest than the Ring is.
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A sentient Ring might still be okay with setting out on such a journey, even if only to maximise its chance of convincing its bearer to run away from the company at a time that makes discovery most likely by a superior user, or servants thereof.
If it convinced its bearer to stay in Rivendell where there is such a large cohort convinced of the need to destroy it, that just increases the likelihood of it being forcibly removed from its current bearer. That might start that person down the path that Sauron has already followed, but it might also place it in the hands of someone more determined to see the quest through to its conclusion.

I don't see Frodo as having a change in his desire for adventure. In Book 1 Chapter 2 we get
‘Of course, I have sometimes thought of going away, but I imagined that as a kind of holiday, a series of adventures like Bilbo’s or better, ending in peace. But this would mean exile, a flight from danger into danger, drawing it after me. And I suppose I must go alone, if I am to do that and save the Shire. But I feel very small, and very uprooted, and well - desperate. The Enemy is so strong and terrible.’
He did not tell Gandalf, but as he was speaking a great desire to follow Bilbo flamed up in his heart - to follow Bilbo, and even perhaps to find him again. It was so strong that it overcame his fear: he could almost have run out there and then down the road without his hat, as Bilbo had done on a similar morning long ago.
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His journey to Rivendell has been more desperate and dangerous than all of Bilbo's adventures put together, and his arrival by Bilbo's side in Rivendell seems to be the fulfilment of all his former wishes. I don't see any need for this to be a Ring induced motivation and I see many reasons for the Ring to argue against it, although the Ring's 'voice' seems to be conspicuously absent, maybe even repressed.
 
For the past 77 years the Ring has been trying to get back to its master. Why would it object to being taken to Mordor? The odds are far greater that Sauron will get it back than that it will be destroyed. If the Ring was going to try to influence Frodo in any way, it would be to grab onto this dream vacation.
 
I think we're all thinking too hard about this. Fewer than 12 hours ago, Frodo was with Bilbo, speaking only of the “fair things they had seen in the world together, of the Elves, of the stars, of trees, and the gentle fall of the bright year in the woods.” I can well imagine that at that moment, a mere 10 hours since he woke up free from the Morgul blade, he dreamed of being able to stay there in Rivendell with Bilbo, talking of Elves and other "fair things." He would have still been under that spell the next morning, when he spoke of wanting to explore the mountains to the east of Rivendell. The Council woke him up from the dream, but I expect he was sorry to let it go. I don't see it as anything related to the Ring, but rather a reflection of his humanity.
 
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