Why does JRRT cast doubt on Gandalf’s paean to Shadowfax, when he gets to Appendix B?

Flammifer

Well-Known Member
Gandalf gives a lyrical description of the qualities of Shadowfax, when the providential horse is first introduced during the Council of Elrond. JRRT, however, goes on to contradict two of Gandalf’s statements in Appendix B.

Gandalf says of Shadowfax, “The horses of the Nine cannot vie with him; tireless, swift as the flowing wind.”

A few sentences later – “Ever as I came north I heard tidings of the Riders, and though I gained on them day by day, they were ever before me.”

The first-time reader has to think, “OK, Shadowfax is the superior horse, the providentially supplied best horse in the world. The horses of the Nine cannot vie with him in tirelessness nor in swiftness. He gains on them all the way north.”

All well and good, until we reach Appendix B. There we learn that the Black Riders cross the Fords of Isen on Sept 18, and reach Hobbiton on Sept 23. Five days (Very fast indeed. The Fords of Isen to Hobbiton seems to be about 500 miles. 100 miles per day for a horse is extraordinary.). Gandalf on Shadowfax crosses the Fords of Isen on Sept 24. He reaches Hobbiton on Sept 29. Also five days. Wait a minute. We thought that Shadowfax was both more tireless and swifter than the horses of the Nine? Apparently not so!

Gandalf says that he and Shadowfax gained on the Black Riders ‘day by day’ as they galloped north. Not so according to Appendix B. Gandalf crosses the Isen six days after the Riders, and arrives in Hobbiton six days after the Riders. He has not gained on them at all! Sure, once the Riders miss Frodo at Bag End, and begin searching for him, Gandalf manages to catch up. This however is due to the Riders slowing to a search pace, not to the superior speed or tirelessness of Shadowfax.

Why did JRRT ‘cast shade’ on Gandalf’s claims for Shadowfax when he came to write Appendix B?

He didn’t need to. It is surprising that the Riders did not cross the Fords of Isen until Sept. 18. The first-time reader, back in the Council of Elrond, certainly assumed that the Riders crossed into Eriador much earlier, and were spending time searching Eriador for The Shire. What were the Riders doing between June (Radagast informs Gandalf on June 29 that the Nine have crossed the Anduin – presumably somewhat earlier) and September 18? JRRT could easily have set the date for the Riders crossing the Fords of Isen much earlier. But he didn’t.

Why?

Some suggestions:

JRRT might have thought it odd that the Riders would have passed through the Gap of Rohan without checking in on Saruman. But he did not want the Riders to meet Saruman until after Gandalf had escaped Orthanc?

JRRT might have considered that, no, he did not want to portray Providence as providing the agents of Light with superior aid than the powers of the agents of the Dark Lord. “Providence can give Gandalf a horse that matches the horses of the Black Riders, but Providence does not provide superior resources to their own agents in the struggle”? (After all, presumably ‘Providence’ or the Valar could get rid of Sauron whenever they wanted to, if they did it themselves. But they don’t. They provide help. But it is indirect. They seem inclined to the interpretation that the Children of Illuvatar must largely solve these problems themselves.) Did JRRT, when composing the Appendices, think, “No, Shadowfax really cannot be superior to the horses of the Black Riders. Providence might supply Gandalf with an equivalent horse, but a superior horse would be going too far”?

Why did JRRT, in Appendix B, contradict Gandalf’s claims about Shadowfax?
 
Given the granularity is days, not hours or minutes, it could still be true that Shadowfax is superior.

If the Nine crossed the Isen on the morning of Sept 18 and arrived in Hobbiton before dawn of Sept 23, while Shadowfax crossed the Isen in the evening of Sept 24 and reaches Hobbiton before dawn of Sept 29, he has still outpaced them by a matter of hours. Not such a difference as to make Shadowfax appear supernatural, but still superior. As for the Nine's crossing of the Isen on Sept 18, it may be as you suggest.
 
Hi Anthony,

It's true that we don't have enough granular detail of timings to know whether Shadowfax, or the horses of the Black Riders were marginally faster between the Fords of Isen and Hobbiton. That is why I asked why JRRT decided to 'cast doubt' on Gandalf's paean to Shadowfax, not 'disprove' it.

We do get some clues as to the timings of events, but not enough to be definitive. We do not know at what time of day either the Riders or Gandalf cross the Fords of Isen. We do know that one Rider reaches Hobbiton 'at nightfall' on Sept. 23, and talks to the Gaffer. We can also infer that Gandalf probably reaches Hobbiton and visits the Gaffer late in the day on Sept. 29. This is because he does not arrive at Crickhollow until some time on Sept. 30. If Gandalf had reached Hobbiton early on Sept. 29, he probably would have reached Crickhollow that same day, rather than the following day.

Nevertheless, the timings of both rides from the Fords to Hobbiton are close enough that we must doubt Gandalf's assertions as to Shadowfax' pre-eminence for speed and stamina amongst horse-kind.

Various elements, besides the speed of horses could also account for slight variations in the timing of the two journeys. For example, if the Riders detoured, after crossing the Isen, to stop in on Isengard (as JRRT contemplated in the two differing versions of what happened in "Unfinished Tales") then they had to cover a longer distance than Gandalf and Shadowfax did. Gandalf, on the other hand, reports, "Ever as I came north I heard tidings of the Riders", so pausing to seek tidings might have slowed him down slightly.

Anyway, I think it is clear that JRRT did cast doubt on Gandalf's assertions about Shadowfax when he wrote Appendix B. The timeline in Appendix B around these events basically disrupts many assumptions and inferences which I think the first-time reader would legitimately have made when reading 'The Council of Elrond'. My question is; Why? I have a few conjectures, but I don't have a clear answer to that question.
 
Another thought has come to me on this matter.
At no point are we told that the Nine started with only nine horses. It is not unknown for people in a hurry to have taken multiple mounts and swapped between them to share the burden of the rider. This allows the rider to maintain a punishing pace without killing their mount. Now the Nine don’t seem to be above allowing mounts to die if it furthers their cause, so maybe they crossed the Isen with 18 mounts between them and rode at such a pace that they had 9 mounts die along the way. This allows them to cover the same approximate distance* in around the same time while maintaining the superiority of Shadowfax.

*Whether the Nine visit Isengard at this time is conjecture as Appendix B doesn’t mention it, not that Hobbits or Gondorian historians would be in a position to know.
 
Hi Anthony,

It is certainly possible that the Nine rode with re-mounts (we don't have any evidence). Having re-mounts travelling unburdened alongside usually would increase the speed and stamina of travelers, though not so much as you might think. The horses, still have to cover 100 miles per day, whether ridden or not. Of course, the unridden horses do not need to carry the weight of a rider as well as propel their own weight. However, consider this: How much does a Ring-wraith weigh? About the weight of one black cloak and two black boots? I am not sure that wraiths weigh anything?

For possible support to the notion that wraiths have no weight, note Gwaihir's comments to Gandalf when he has been sent back to the top of Celebdil, and is just transitioning from spiritual back to physical and embodied form; "A burden you have been, but not so now. Light as a swan's feather in my claw you are. The Sun shines through you. Indeed I do not think you need me any more: were I to let you fall, you would float upon the wind." I think it likely that Ring-wraiths, similarly, have no weight of their own.

You are also correct that we do not know that the Riders made a detour to Isengard after crossing the Fords of Isen. Still, it is likely. How did they know where The Shire was, so they could gallop straight there in five days if they didn't find out from Saruman? (In both of JRRT's two conflicting considerations on the course of the Ring-wraiths, in "Unfinished Tales", he has them detour to Isengard, and has them learn where The Shire is from Saruman in one account, and from Wormtongue in the other.)

I really like your observation that neither Hobbits nor Gondorian historians might have been in a position to know what the Nine were up to between crossing the Anduin and crossing the Isen. Is realizing this a reason why JRRT abandoned the attempt to construct this narrative and never published either of those two versions (or any other) in "Unfinished Tales"? (Though, how exactly anyone managed to date the Riders' crossing of the Ford's of Isen in the Appendix for inclusion in the Red Book, is also a mystery.)

And, I still wonder why JRRT decided to dumbfound all of his first-time-readers' very reasonable suppositions, let alone query Gandalf's comments on Shadowfax, when he came to construct the time-line in Appendix B?
 
It is true that we don't know how much a Nazgûl weighs, nor whether their mail and weapons are physical or ethereal. Given the morgul-blade has substance that they can manipulate, it's fair to postulate that the rest of their gear may also; that said, no mention is made of finding their gear in the Bruinen. They seemingly don't need food or rest either, so it is also possible that they didn't stop when Gandalf and Shadowfax may have stopped from time to time.

Given JRRT's tendency toward fluid story development, in contrast to the relatively static representation in printed form, I suggest that at the time of writing Appendix B he had the kernel of the ideas that were captured in Unfinished Tales, but when he tried to make the pieces fit he ran into trouble and eventually gave the whole thing up.

The in-world explanation for 'knowing' the date of crossing of the Isen is supported by the reactions of animals to the proximity of the Nazgûl; If the herds of the Rohirrim were made restless due to the passing of the Nine, then a careful scholar interviewing herders after the war could make a plausible determination of the date, if not the activities preceding. There wouldn't be the same opportunity to interview refugees, the forces of Saruman, or the people of Dunland to determine the activities of the Nine after crossing the Isen.

With the dates, there are some hard constraints set by the narrative:
Gandalf's escape from Isengard to Rohan
The minimum time the Nine can reasonably take to get from the Isen to the Shire
The date of arrival of the Four in the Shire (coinciding with Frodo's departure from Bag-End)
Gandalf's travel through Bree (which has to follow the Hobbit's departure with Aragorn) and encounter on Weathertop

I think the evidence from Unfinished Tales gives the opportunity to draw conclusions on the reasoning for the selection of dates for events.

If at the time of writing Appendix B JRRT was planning on the Nine visiting Isengard for directions to the Shire, then Gandalf can't be on top of the tower at the time. Equally, the Nine have a narrow window to cross the Isen to avoid the possibility of crossing paths with Gandalf in Rohan.
Gandalf also couldn't cross the Isen ahead of the Nine, or the Nine would have to pass Gandalf on the road to arrive before him.

Certainly, removing the Nine's visit to Isengard would allow the Nine to cross the Isen much earlier, but would also remove some of the need for a two day pursuit of Shadowfax. Seemingly Appendix B was written before dropping that story idea.
As for how the Nine know where to find the Shire without a visit to Isengard, it is possible the Saruman could have let it slip during a Palantir session with Sauron (maybe on September 15th or 16th); Sauron's will then sends them in the right direction over the most favourable terrain, while avoiding Lothlorien and Rivendell.

Equally, Gandalf spending two days following and taming Shadowfax strikes a reasonable balance between Shadowfax not looking sufficiently mythic (noone else has ever ridden him, but Gandalf simply walks over to him, hops on, and rides away?), Gandalf looking foolish (he's in a desperate hurry, but he spends more than two days chasing down a special horse to get there no earlier than a standard horse might if he left right away?), and Shadowfax looking supernatural (Gandalf spends four or five days chasing the special horse that travels 300 miles per day to get him there in two days riding?).

And finally many readers, when having finished the narrative, encounter the Appendices are unlikely to get through Appendix A, let alone B, so it's not a big issue for appreciation of the narrative; I doubt many people reading Appendix B would even put those dates beside Gandalf's description of Shadowfax to the Council of Elrond to assess Gandalf's claims of Shadowfax's superiority.
 
I doubt many people reading Appendix B would even put those dates beside Gandalf's description of Shadowfax to the Council of Elrond to assess Gandalf's claims of Shadowfax's superiority.
It may well be that NOBODY has ever done so before, and Flammifer gets a "First!" on this. The level of sentence-by-sentence scrutiny embodied in eLotR is certainly unique in my experience, and may be unequalled anywhere, with the exception of Bible exegesis.

Also, it's worth reiterating that Gandalf's statements are not always to be taken as literally true; he tends to have his very own slant on things. . . And Tolkien's authorial statements of absolutes are notoriously variable: who's Eldest, really? Treebeard? Bombadil? If you want to find apparent contradictions in LotR you don't really have to look very far.
 
It seems to me that JRRT's chronological problems were mostly occasioned by having Gandalf meet Radagast on the 29th of June, to be informed that the Nine have crossed the Anduin and are seeking The Shire, and then Gandalf having to have reached Bree after the Hobbits and Strider have left on 30 September.

That leaves a three month gap to fill. There are two parties who's movements in those 3 months are critical: Gandalf, and the Riders.

Filling the Gap:

Gandalf spends the 3 month gap travelling to Isengard (preceded by a quick detour to Bree, to leave the note with Barliman), 14 days. Imprisoned in Orthanc, 68 days. Travelling from Orthanc to Bree, 12 days.

The Ring-wraiths spend the 3 month gap in unknown pursuits, east of the Isen for at least 78 days (between Radagast announcing they have crossed the Anduin, and crossing the Isen), and probably more like 87 days (assuming they crossed the Anduin directly after the battle at Osgiliath). They then take 5 days to reach Hobbiton. They then take 7 days (6 and a bit days) searching, before attacking Crickhollow and Bree in the early hours of 30 September.

The problems JRRT had to wrestle with when constructing the chronology:

1. Gandalf's journey from escaping Isengard, through acquiring Shadowfax, to arriving in Hobbition has to be faster than his journey from meeting Radagast to Isengard was, or what was the point in going to Rohan? "Gwaihir, just head me north and set me down next to a horse, somewhere in Dunland? I can make it back to Hobbiton in less than 14 days", (that's how long it took him to go to Isengard).

2. JRRT has now made the assumption that the Riders would not have passed the Gap of Rohan without calling in on Saruman. They cannot find Gandalf there.

3. If the Riders reach Isengard after Gandalf escapes, how do they manage to beat Gandalf to The Shire?

4. If the Riders don't reach Isengard until after Gandalf escapes, what were they doing between crossing the Anduin (and Radagast reporting this to Gandalf) and reaching Isengard?

A possible solution to those problems that JRRT could have used.

1. Postpone Gandalf's meeting with Radagast. Not much in the text has to be changed to make Gandalf meet Radagast later. But, Gandalf would not have gone straight to Isengard, if he did not think he could get there and back in time for Frodo's birthday. It took 14 days to get there. Say 14 to get back and 5 days to plot and plan with Saruman. 33 days. Plus some contingency, say 10 days. The latest Gandalf could have met Radagast would have been about August 7.

2. The Riders cross the Anduin in late June. They arrive in Isengard by mid-July (eliminating the question of what they were doing east of Eriador - they were sneaking through Rohan, and it didn't take them very long.). Saruman is alarmed by their search for The Shire. He mis-directs them. Sets them off on a wild goose chase through southern Eriador. He gets Radagast to search for Gandalf and invite him to Orthanc. Radagast finds Gandalf on August 7. It now makes sense for Gandalf to have been alarmed by the rumors of the refugees, as the Riders have been in Eriador for weeks.

3. Gandalf is imprisoned in Orthanc from August 21 to Sept. 18, and his time-line then proceeds as published. There is no question about Gandalf's paean to Shadowfax, as the Rider's timeline changes slightly to have them showing up at Sarn Ford, and discovering the Shire on 21 Sept (one day before as published, so that Shadowfax is clearly faster from Sarn Ford to Hobbiton) but they have crossed the Isen back in mid July, and spent 2 months searching for the Shire, so there is no close comparison to Shadowfax' speed and stamina.

That would have solved the problems, with only minor changes to the written text. Gandalf would just have needed to hang around in Bag End for an extra month or so before heading off to check the Southern boundaries of the Shire. However, that is not the chronology that JRRT adopted. Why?
 
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Something I just discovered while looking up information about horses is that apparently they need very little sleep. I think one source said that while they do need full, lie-down sleep on occasion, it's possible for them to go for over a week on mere naps without any noticeable ill effects. I'm not sure if it's ever specified, but I also wouldn't think that the Nazgul need much (if any) sleep. Gandalf, however, does need sleep. Therefore, it's entirely possible that Shadowfax was faster and was catching up whenever they were moving, but Gandalf's need for occasional rest kept the lead from shrinking too much.
 
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