Why Gandalf does not mention Frodo’s actions re. testing the Ring in the fire, during the Council?

Flammifer

Well-Known Member
There was some discussion during the last class on why Gandalf does not comment on Frodo’s ‘reluctance’ to throw the Ring in the Fire during the Bag End test. Comments such as Gandalf not wanting the Council to know how difficult throwing the Ring in Mt. Doom might be.

I think this whole discussion was based on a mis-recollection of what exactly happened in Bag End during this incident. Gandalf did not mention this, because nothing of importance happened.

Gandalf asked for the Ring. Frodo gave it to him (Actually this is of some importance! Here we have an example of Frodo voluntarily giving the Ring to someone else!). He handed it to Gandalf “slowly”, and it suddenly felt “very heavy, as if either it or Frodo himself was in some way reluctant for Gandalf to touch it.” However, hand it over he did.

Gandalf then, after holding it up and asking, “Can you see any markings on it?” throws it into the middle of the fire. Frodo, “gave a cry, and groped for the tongs”. Gandalf says, “Wait!” After a while he picks it out of the fire with the tongs and drops it in Frodo’s hand, whereupon they see the fire writing.

So, contrary to what seems to have been popular conception, Frodo does not refuse to throw the Ring in the Fire. He just reacts with surprise when Gandalf does, which is perfectly understandable when any gold ring is chucked in a fire, without requiring the Ring to have mysterious and inimical powers.

I suggest that the reason that Gandalf gives the Council no more details of the Bag End Ring fire test is not mysterious. It is simply because nothing of interest to any observer (other than possibly Frodo, with his feeling of either himself or the Ring being reluctant for Gandalf to touch it) happened except for the inscription showing up on the Ring.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

(By the way; I conjecture that the fire in Bag End was a coal fire not a wood fire. For those who have ever seen a coal fire (not many, I guess, in the USA - but more like a charcoal fire) the ring would likely just sit atop the coals when chucked, easy to pick up with tongs, whereas a ring tossed into a wood fire would likely slip down between the logs and be considerably harder to retrieve. Coal fires would have been common, and much more common than wood fires, in JRRT's day in England.)
 
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All good points.

As Frodo doesn't seem to have shared an account of his feelings during the 'ring in the fire' incident with Gandalf before the Council, it seems reasonable that Gandalf would have found the whole event rather unremarkable beyond the revelation of the fire writing.
In fact, if Gandalf had found something remarkable there he probably wouldn't have left without Frodo. I'm not suggesting the Gandalf would have stolen Frodo away during the night, but I could imagine him staying until Frodo enacted his plan to move to Buckland.

Assuming this was part of the story discussed between Frodo and Bilbo in Rivendell before the departure of the Company, it also stands a good chance of his memory of the events being largely unaffected by later events, although one always has to wonder how much the Morgul wound coloured his memories of what happened prior to Weathertop, and Gandalf 2.0 might not have perfect recall of those events either.
If Sam was present for those discussions too, he might have been able to ensure the final written account accorded with those discussions in Rivendell, even if he wasn't snooping at the window at the time of the exchange in question.
 
Re-reading further in The Shadow of the Past reminded me of this passage which I think is what people were referring to:
Frodo drew the Ring out of his pocket again and looked at it. It now appeared plain and smooth, without mark or device that he could see. The gold looked very fair and pure, and Frodo thought how rich and beautiful was its colour, how perfect was its roundness. It was an admirable thing and altogether precious. When he took it out he had intended to fling it from him into the very hottest part of the fire. But he found now that he could not do so, not without a great struggle. He weighed the Ring in his hand, hesitating, and forcing himself to remember all that Gandalf had told him; and then with an effort of will he made a movement, as if to cast it away - but he found that he had put it back in his pocket.

Gandalf laughed grimly. ‘You see? Already you too, Frodo, cannot easily let it go, nor will to damage it. And I could not “make” you - except by force, which would break your mind. But as for breaking the Ring, force is useless. Even if you took it and struck it with a heavy sledge-hammer, it would make no dint in it. It cannot be unmade by your hands, or by mine.

Of course, it doesn't change the conclusion that Gandalf felt that nothing else remarkable occurred during this exchange, as he reacted with grim laughter, not shock or surprise: this wasn't a revelation to Gandalf; he expected this.
 
Hi Anthony,

You are right. I had forgotten that there were two 'let's throw the Ring in the fire' moments in The Shadow of the Past, and that in the second one (just a demo by Gandalf) Frodo was unable to do so.

That story, if told at the Council would certainly have alarmed some participants even more about the folly of the plan to send the Ring to be cast into Mt. Doom.

However, it was not part of the story of the actual casting of the Ring into the fire, which was the proof that The Halfling's ring was the One Ring.

So, it was not part of the story Gandalf was telling. And, during the actual chucking of the Ring into the Bag End fire, and the discovery of the inscription, there was no incident of interest to the Council other than the discovery.
 
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