Flammifer
Well-Known Member
There were many good thoughts on this considered during the class. However, I would like to suggest one other reason, that was not discussed.
Could it be that this passage was included mostly to set up Gandalf’s reply, “If all the grievances that stand between Elves and Dwarves are to be brought up here, we may as well abandon this Council.”?
As far as I can recall, this is the first time in TLOTR that the long enmity between Elves and Dwarves is mentioned. (Can anyone find earlier references?). Yet this aversion is critical to the story and character arcs of both Gimli and Legolas. How would we, as first-time readers, understand Gimli’s experience in Lorien, and the reaction to him by Galadriel and Celeborn, if we did not know of this long and mutual suspicion and dislike? How would we have perceived the remarkability of Gimli and Legolas’ friendship, if we had no conception of its implausibility?
The hostility has to be introduced into TLOTR somewhere, and here is where. It comes in via a flash-back to The Hobbit, where we were told, “they (the Elves) did not love dwarves, and thought he (Thorin) was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the Dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account.” Here, in TLOTR, Gandalf even expands upon this explanation, by suggesting not just one grievance and several wars, but a long list of grievances.
Could it be that JRRT put this passage in where he did, just to establish a baseline. Yes, Elves and Dwarves have hated each other for a very long time, so the story arc of Legolas and Gimli is unprecedented and remarkable?
Could it be that this passage was included mostly to set up Gandalf’s reply, “If all the grievances that stand between Elves and Dwarves are to be brought up here, we may as well abandon this Council.”?
As far as I can recall, this is the first time in TLOTR that the long enmity between Elves and Dwarves is mentioned. (Can anyone find earlier references?). Yet this aversion is critical to the story and character arcs of both Gimli and Legolas. How would we, as first-time readers, understand Gimli’s experience in Lorien, and the reaction to him by Galadriel and Celeborn, if we did not know of this long and mutual suspicion and dislike? How would we have perceived the remarkability of Gimli and Legolas’ friendship, if we had no conception of its implausibility?
The hostility has to be introduced into TLOTR somewhere, and here is where. It comes in via a flash-back to The Hobbit, where we were told, “they (the Elves) did not love dwarves, and thought he (Thorin) was an enemy. In ancient days they had had wars with some of the Dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account.” Here, in TLOTR, Gandalf even expands upon this explanation, by suggesting not just one grievance and several wars, but a long list of grievances.
Could it be that JRRT put this passage in where he did, just to establish a baseline. Yes, Elves and Dwarves have hated each other for a very long time, so the story arc of Legolas and Gimli is unprecedented and remarkable?
