LyndonLeaves
Member
Hi all, I have some muddled thoughts about wisdom and the wise that I thought I'd jot down and maybe you could help me clarify. Be warned. This post has many more questions than answers.
Something that comes up in class time after time is that Gandalf and Elrond, especially in chapter 2 and the Council of Elrond are making educated guesses about events and effects that they can't know for sure, because there is no precedent. They are literally suggesting doing things that have never been done before. Even Bombadil makes it clear he is guessing about the movements of the Nazgul when Frodo asks him if they will follow.
Someone, and I forget who it was, so my apologies, asked how they know that Mount Doom is the only place the ring can be destroyed. Excellent question. Nobody has ever done it before... so how do they know. Even if Sauron mentioned it to a passing orc, who told his mum who was heard by Gollum who told Gandalf, how does Sauron know? Can you imagine? Gollum falls into Mount Doom and burns to a crisp, while Sauron shows up laughing, plucks the ring out of the lava and tips Frodo mistaking him for the delivery boy.
Anyway. My point is not to dispute what Gandalf and Elrond are telling us, but to suggest reasons why we should believe them.
Wise people who isolate themselves make bad decisions.
- Sauron making the Ring
- Denethor using the Palantir
- Saruman over and over again
Wise people who collaborate make better decisions.
- Gandalf working with Aragorn to find Gollum
- The Council of Elrond
- The Last Alliance
A proof point would be that the ring is always trying to isolate Frodo, so that he can make bad decisions by himself.
Is this why the Council of Elrond so readily accept Gandalf and Elrond's speculations about what cannot be known because it has never been done? Because they are being openly brought into the conversation? Because individually they are not the wise, but they are wise because they are gathered there?
There are of course dissenters and question askers... but they are individuals. There are not factions. The consensus always seems clear.
Is this why Elrond can now say that the way forward is clear? Because when they are all gathered and their combined knowledge has been shared, none of them can agree on another way?
So I'll ask another wise group, do you think this holds water? Does it give us a sense of how the wise make decisions when they have no precedent or certain knowledge?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Something that comes up in class time after time is that Gandalf and Elrond, especially in chapter 2 and the Council of Elrond are making educated guesses about events and effects that they can't know for sure, because there is no precedent. They are literally suggesting doing things that have never been done before. Even Bombadil makes it clear he is guessing about the movements of the Nazgul when Frodo asks him if they will follow.
Someone, and I forget who it was, so my apologies, asked how they know that Mount Doom is the only place the ring can be destroyed. Excellent question. Nobody has ever done it before... so how do they know. Even if Sauron mentioned it to a passing orc, who told his mum who was heard by Gollum who told Gandalf, how does Sauron know? Can you imagine? Gollum falls into Mount Doom and burns to a crisp, while Sauron shows up laughing, plucks the ring out of the lava and tips Frodo mistaking him for the delivery boy.
Anyway. My point is not to dispute what Gandalf and Elrond are telling us, but to suggest reasons why we should believe them.
Wise people who isolate themselves make bad decisions.
- Sauron making the Ring
- Denethor using the Palantir
- Saruman over and over again
Wise people who collaborate make better decisions.
- Gandalf working with Aragorn to find Gollum
- The Council of Elrond
- The Last Alliance
A proof point would be that the ring is always trying to isolate Frodo, so that he can make bad decisions by himself.
Is this why the Council of Elrond so readily accept Gandalf and Elrond's speculations about what cannot be known because it has never been done? Because they are being openly brought into the conversation? Because individually they are not the wise, but they are wise because they are gathered there?
There are of course dissenters and question askers... but they are individuals. There are not factions. The consensus always seems clear.
Is this why Elrond can now say that the way forward is clear? Because when they are all gathered and their combined knowledge has been shared, none of them can agree on another way?
So I'll ask another wise group, do you think this holds water? Does it give us a sense of how the wise make decisions when they have no precedent or certain knowledge?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.