When should we introduce them (if we introduce them)? Season 5, when Aredhel leaves, or when she returns to Gondolin? Early Season 6, when Hurin and Huor arrive after rescue from Orcs? Or Season 8 (?) when Tuor arrives in Gondolin as a messenger of Ulmo?We have not yet discussed how we intend to handle the lords of Gondolin. We know we want Glorfindel and Ecthelion. And we've discussed how Rog will come to Gondolin post-battle (so, his house is not one of the 'original' houses but a later addition, as are several others).
Houses of Gondolin:
House of the King: TurgonAs you can see, some of these are later additions. At the founding of Gondolin, we will only have:
House of the Heavenly Arch: Egalmoth
House of the Tree: Galdor
House of the Golden Flower: Glorfindel
House of the Fountain: Ecthelion
House of the Swallow: Duilin
House of the Harp: Salgant
House of the Mole: Maeglin
House of the Pillar: Penlod
House of the Tower of Snow: (also) Penlod
House of the Wing: Tuor
House of the Hammer of Wrath: Rog
House of the King: Turgon
House of the Heavenly Arch: Egalmoth
House of the Tree: Galdor
House of the Golden Flower: Glorfindel
House of the Fountain: Ecthelion
House of the Swallow: Duilin
House of the Harp: Salgant
House of the Pillar: Penlod
House of the Tower of Snow: (also) Penlod
In Season 4, we only intend to introduce Glorfindel and Ecthelion. The names in italics are there, but as unnamed faces in the background. More of a costuming choice than a casting choice, at this point in time. We'll spend a lot of time in Gondolin over the next few seasons, so it's quite possible that we'll find opportunities to give some of those unnamed lords roles or lines or character development. Or....they might just be Turgon's court, known by their heraldry and that is all.
Is this the same Galdor? That's a choice we can make this season. It could be, though it doesn't have to be. Galdor-of-the-Havens was one of Círdan's mariners in Season 3; he's not currently with Círdan in the north, but with the people of the Havens who are currently refugees.
We know that some Sindar (including Falathrim from the [destroyed] Havens) will join Turgon in Nevrast. We will show that in Episode 4-5, presumably. These Sindar will then go to Gondolin with Turgon this season (that move will happen after the Kinslaying reveal, so it might not be automatic, but Turgon will handle it in some way).
In the Lost Tales version of the Fall of Gondolin (the only one we have!), a lot of the folk of the House of the Tree (Galdor's house) escape with Tuor and join the refugees at the Havens of Sirion.
So, if we wanted him to be the same person, he could wind up back at the Havens that way, and we'd have to have him stay with Círdan rather than sail west, sticking around for the Second and Third Ages.
When Tolkien was considering the 'two Glorfindels' problem, he ultimately concluded that these two Galdors were in fact different elves, but it was a question worth asking to him. He concluded that it's a common name, and it's just two random elves who happen to share a name. We could merge them, but we don't have to. If we did merge them into one, we would likely solve the problem Tolkien saw with making them a single character; in our version, Galdor is one of the Falathrim, not a Noldo elf, so there's no reason for him to return to Tol Eressëa with the other Noldor at the end of the First Age. Having one of the Lords of Gondolin be a Sinda would be an interesting choice; we could do something with that.
We're eliminating the name 'Legolas Greenleaf' as an elf of Gondolin because we're reserving that for the main character in Lord of the Rings. We have enough other elves in Gondolin; we don't need him. Can someone else take his role? Sure, no problem. But we're not using that name.
If Galdor-of-the-Havens *is* Galdor-of-Gondolin, then that would give us interesting opportunities for dialogue between Galdor and Glorfindel later.
In conclusion - Egalmoth, Duilin, Salgant, and Penlod will not be introduced by name this season. If Galdor is a different elf, he won't be introduced, either. If it's the same Galdor, we will have to get him to Nevrast and make him the leader of a group of Sindar there.
If we are talking about Glorfindel and Ecthelion, we have already seen them as unnamed characters without a speaking role in S03. As Turgon separates from the other Noldor, they will likely be introduced through S04.When should we introduce them (if we introduce them)? Season 5, when Aredhel leaves, or when she returns to Gondolin? Early Season 6, when Hurin and Huor arrive after rescue from Orcs? Or Season 8 (?) when Tuor arrives in Gondolin as a messenger of Ulmo?
Well, the other Lords of Gondolin. How about the rest (with the exception of Glorfindel and Ecthelion who are introduced earlier) are introduced by the time Aredhel makes her fateful trip in Season 5 or when she returns and dies, with Maeglin being introduced to the rest when he forms his own house?If we are talking about Glorfindel and Ecthelion, we have already seen them as unnamed characters without a speaking role in S03. As Turgon separates from the other Noldor, they will likely be introduced through S04.
Perhaps. We will likely begin to focus more on Gondolin as we approach its fall.Well, the other Lords of Gondolin. How about the rest (with the exception of Glorfindel and Ecthelion who are introduced earlier) are introduced by the time Aredhel makes her fateful trip in Season 5 or when she returns and dies, with Maeglin being introduced to the rest when he forms his own house?
True.We may introduce them. We may not.
Ecthelion: fighting off werewolves sounds good.I think they each require an 'introductory scene' where they do something significant and the audience pays attention to them, but also gets to know something of their characters. There was a suggestion for Ecthelion to fight off werewolves, either while exploring Beleriand or in an attempted elf-napping. A skirmish in which he would be the awesome fighter who prevails (and saves whomever he's with at the time).
I don't recall any suggestions on how to introduce Glorfindel, actually.
It's because it has felt like when I mention the possibility, the reaction I get looks like: They don't need to be Celeborn's relative, therefore they should not be his relative. This is why it has sometimes felt like the answer is already no.suggesting that Nick and I will pre-emptively ban your ideas there is a bit...pre-emptive...don't you think?Okay, in all seriousness, I understand your concern.
Yes, we did.You'll notice that we did manage to get flashbacks-for-Eöl-who-has-been-in-Beleriand-since-well-before-the-Sun-rose into Season 4.
I like this.I certainly intend to bring up Irimë's daughter again and see if she can be included. As of right now, she has not been, for whatever reason.
Each of our kings will have a court. That court will consist mostly of background characters. 'Someone' will speak up when we need the court to voice something, and they will become repeat background faces. So, this is comparable to the minor nameless alien ambassadors from Babylon 5. They will be known by their role, not by their name.
I just want to point out that discussing Ecthelion and Glorfindel on this thread seems ... wrong somehow...True.
How would we forge identities for characters like Ecthelion and Glorfindel, who are background characters at present but play a larger role in years to come?
It’s because we’ve been talking about the roles and magnitude of characters and as of right now, Glorfindel and Ecthelion are minor characters.I just want to point out that discussing Ecthelion and Glorfindel on this thread seems ... wrong somehow...
Yeah, but maybe this isn't the right forum for that.It’s because we’ve been talking about the roles and magnitude of characters and as of right now, Glorfindel and Ecthelion are minor characters.