Worldbuilding in Valinor

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This is how i would imagine Valmar from the Mahanaxar... a raw sketch i know, but it's just about how i would use Tolkienian Buildings in it's skyline. Maybe a bit crowded, but i kind of think Valmar could appear a bit stuffed.
 
this is way more difficult than i ever had imagined. there's just too many seeming contradictions in the text.

llrien stretches as far north as the roots of telperion, yet the river from telperion flows south to lorien into the pool of silindrin.

what do we know about aman, else that it's vaguely half-moon shaped and touches both, northern and southern arctic regions?

i'm more and more coming to the conclusion that the "pools" of irtinsa, ton sovriel and silpion and lake lorellin are actually vast inlandseas...
 
Ok, so I'm currently planning to host a session Saturday evening to talk through some of this. I realize it isn't particularly Euro-friendly, so I currently plan to try to open the session at 5 pm EST if possible to at least give you guys across the pond a shot at attending, even if you can't stay for the whole thing.
 
can't wait til it is on youtube. is the last session already avaulable there? could't find anything after the more than 5 hours finale session (yes i actually listened through the entire 5 hours session...)
 
Haerangil said:
can't wait til it is on youtube. is the last session already avaulable there? could't find anything after the more than 5 hours finale session (yes i actually listened through the entire 5 hours session...)
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You're a brave man. That's the last session we did. We usually do them every two weeks unless we're behind.
 
Ok, so here's the link to the video-conference, which is currently live. (Not broadcasting yet. Will post Youtube link when it's up.)

https://hangouts.google.com/hangout...1kDRZPu6s0XSHmA1xzi3cELM=?hl=en_US&authuser=0

Here's the deal:
You don't have to be on camera, you don't even have to share your audio. I won't, however, be going live on Youtube until I get someone on camera with me, or 7:30 EST, whichever comes first. :) If you have trouble joining Google Hangouts (typically happens with IOs devices) let me know here, on twitter (@nickpalaz0123) or on gmail/google ([email protected]) and I'll send an invite to your gmail.

See you guys soon!
 
http://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?media/the -shaping-of-middle-earth.93/full&d=1483673411

just listened to the first part. a few thoughts so far:

1. distances between cuuvienen. and beleriand.

i like what you said about the climate of cuivienen...
we don't really jnow the latitude of cuivienen.if it was a northern or northeastern bay of helcar climate would have been rather cool, at last sumilar to northern europe say northern britain or maybe denmark, but not really northern skandinavian. if cuivienen wss an esdtern or southeadtern bay clumate would have been mych warmer, similar to southern europe, perhaps like southern france or northern italy.

i disagree with the estimated length of the journey however. people still use kwfs continental maps, which i have criticised before. i'll post an alternative map on which i projected tilkiens ambarkanta sketches on a realworld map. the journey from cuivienen to beleriand should have been about 8000-9000 miles and would have taken place in a rather northern climate between the 50th and 60th degree of longitude. the landscape at this time would probably not have been largely steppe or prairie but lush and often deep woidland.
 
i curse this iphone.. i can't write proper on it.apologies for the typos...

i"ll continue...

2nd elves & animals

i agree that elves cummynicate with beadts as they communicate with plants.they would be natural horsewhisperers.however rhis issue also brings us to problems: they hunt and herd for example.as their horses seem not to be tamed animals but rather allies (and at a later point tilkien does mention the feanorian horse-archers and great wsr-camps of these at anfauglith-horse aecher tactis serms to have played a major role in the siege of angband) so horses were allies,not tamed creatures.were hunted and herded animals actually allies too? i mean do the elves actually persuade animals ro allow them to be eaten? this thought seems odd to me...

this also touches the silk-worm issue you rightfully brought up. MERP for example solved the issue of silk by inventing "tree-silk".. a silk-like substance that elves made from wood or plant fibres... it never fully convinced me though.other media has tried ti explain the elves using spider-web as silk, that neither cinvinced me tio, and at that point there wete ni great spiders in muddle-earth yet (or were they?)

somehow i like the idea that the great glow-worms once mentioned inconnectiin with valinor were the source of the silk of the valinorean elves and they may have brought some of these back to beletiand.
 
one last point:

i love the idea of root-bridges! at which point did the elves meet the ents? we know they started to wake up trees and talked to them and niticed that some of those trees actually were not trees but ents.so, did rhey actually meet the ents at cuivienen or on their journey? did the ents actually follow or even join the elves on their wandering? did the ents protect the elves from morgoths beasts and the hunter?


enough of that now.i like your ideas on amanian geigraphy and the calacirya, though i disagree with valimar being ser on a high plateau... rivers run to the plains from the mauntains, so it should lies deeper. i"ll definitely wirk in a fish-market at the ruverport of toonah and the sprawls of tirion outside the walls if i do a map for that town. somebody once calculated that elves can see 16times the dustance men can, so i'm not yet sure if youre right about the distances between the settlements.i have to rethink that again...
 
I'll have to return after I've had time to listen to the session but:
Haerangil said:
did rhey actually meet the ents at cuivienen or on their journey
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The elves meet Ents on the Great Journey (East of the Misty Mountains). Some of the elves stay behind because of this (Lenwë).
Also:
Haerangil said:
i like what you said about the climate of cuivienen...
we don't really jnow the latitude of cuivienen.if it was a northern or northeastern bay of helcar climate would have been rather cool, at last sumilar to northern europe say northern britain or maybe denmark, but not really northern skandinavian. if cuivienen wss an esdtern or southeadtern bay clumate would have been mych warmer, similar to southern europe, perhaps like southern france or northern italy
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I agree with you, and (although I know you don't care for Fonstad from which I think I got this idea) we earlier discussed the Cuiviénen shore having Mediterranean climate, similar to the Eastern Mediterranean (as in Lebanon or Turkey). We have a thread on this in the Sets section.

Again, I should listen to what is said...
 
I'm onboard with the climate at Cuivenin being relatively warm. As to the numerical distances I threw out, they were really only examples. Just trying to get a feel for things. There can be no doubt that Tirion must be relatively close to the sea for the tower of Ingwe to function properly, and that Taniquetil must be a sufficient distance for the elves to not have gone there in the first place.
 
Not to be THAT guy (but I totally am). If we're dealing with a flat-earth cosmology, then we really don't have to adhere to the normal rules of climatology (although I think we should keep them in mind). So it can be said that prior to the earth being made round, there was no real differentiation of climate until one got to the far far north, and even that might be due to Morgoth's influence or the remnants of the tower Helcar (which may have been made of ice, as we recall) rather than an effect of climate. This would make sense later as we try to explain why Beleriand (which is the north west of Middle Earth) has such a temperate climate.
 
Ray Burns said:
Not to be THAT guy (but I totally am). If we're dealing with a flat-earth cosmology, then we really don't have to adhere to the normal rules of climatology (although I think we should keep them in mind). So it can be said that prior to the earth being made round, there was no real differentiation of climate until one got to the far far north, and even that might be due to Morgoth's influence or the remnants of the tower Helcar (which may have been made of ice, as we recall) rather than an effect of climate. This would make sense later as we try to explain why Beleriand (which is the north west of Middle Earth) has such a temperate climate.
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That is a very good point. I had been suggesting all along that the elves seem better able to deal with cold than we are, and this seems a likely reason for the cold to be even less of an issue.
 
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A New Version of Aman. This Time I followed The Shaping of ME Sketches more closely, yet I still chose to put the Bay of Eldamar on the same longitude as Great Britain instead the Equator. Main difference: the Helcaraxe is far smaller now and the Faskala Númen and Irtinsa/Ton Sovriel are now vast Inland Seas... the Continent is huge and touches both polar regions, yet Valinor is mainly in the more lust and rather "european" Northeastern Zone.
 
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