Season 6 GANTT Chart - Preliminary

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Obviously at some point we are going to need to break down this story episode by episode. For now, we'll still working out big picture storyline stuff, rather than figuring out which elements go in which episodes. We have definitely not yet gotten to the point of figuring out if something is the cliffhanger at the end of one episode or the opening of another episode, etc.

So, just as a matter of breaking down the content, here is one possible approach:

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Basically, if you take the summary of the chapter 'Of Beren and Lúthien' on Tolkien Gateway, and break down what needs to happen into 13 episodes, this is roughly what you would end up with.

Obviously I didn't include details. So, for instance, Daeron isn't mentioned here, but that doesn't mean he's not playing an important role. Likewise, I didn't mention Thingol at any point, but obviously he is the one demanding the quest. Etc. The point of this breakdown is to see how many episodes it would take to tell the story, and to get a feel of what needs to be condensed, and what has room to be expanded a bit. I worked from the beginning and the end towards the center....so you will see that there is one 'blank' episode in the middle. Based on this break down, there is some slight room to expand content a bit. The question then becomes...do we want to give more time to the beginning content (which looks very rushed), or do we decide that the later content is more dramatic, and we'll want the additional screentime there?

Just based on the first glance, I would be in favor of stretching the content earmarked for the first episode into 2 episodes. Give Sauron time to take Tol Sirion, while also establishing why Barahir's band is a threat in Dorthonion. Then, episode 2 covers Beren's errand, Gorlim's betrayal, and the death of Barahir. Leaving Episode 3 for lone vengeful Beren who eventually heads South. Not sure that helps, but that would place Lúthien taking down the tower at Tol Sirion as the end of Episode 7. Which isn't terrible, but that does mean that the earliest Beren and Lúthien would be on screen together would be the end of Episode 3, when Beren has just stumbled into Doriath. Their actual getting-to-know-you scenes would be in Episode 4. Is that too long to wait? And is it helpful to invest the early screentime in those other things? What would we do with Lúthien for three episodes in Doriath before she meets Beren?


I am putting this thread here so if people have GANTT chart relevant thoughts, there is a good place to share them. For instance, ideas concerning which storylines should overlap, or happen before/after particular events. But that also includes working out the pacing of the season.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
Just based on the first glance, I would be in favor of stretching the content earmarked for the first episode into 2 episodes. Give Sauron time to take Tol Sirion, while also establishing why Barahir's band is a threat in Dorthonion. Then, episode 2 covers Beren's errand, Gorlim's betrayal, and the death of Barahir. Leaving Episode 3 for lone vengeful Beren who eventually heads South. Not sure that helps, but that would place Lúthien taking down the tower at Tol Sirion as the end of Episode 7. Which isn't terrible, but that does mean that the earliest Beren and Lúthien would be on screen together would be the end of Episode 3, when Beren has just stumbled into Doriath. Their actual getting-to-know-you scenes would be in Episode 4. Is that too long to wait? And is it helpful to invest the early screentime in those other things? What would we do with Lúthien for three episodes in Doriath before she meets Beren?
1. Very good work with the table! Very informative.

2. I would be in favour of extending the 1 eposode into 2. Otherwise we have to cut canonical stuff out and then invent a lot in the middle.

3. Luthien in Doriath: we could show her growing dissatisfaction with the status quo, starting asking existential questions ("spinning wheel", discussions with Melian) - and, if we go with the "planned Doriath attack" version - there would be tention growing in Doriath, the commanders working hard preparing for whatever there is to come, Thingol getting more distant and alienated from his wive and daughter by not wanting to worry them and burden them with his problem. Which would again increase Luthien's newly started feeling "out of place".
This would be Morgoth's doing - twisting Thingol's natural impulse to protect his women into making him unable to recruit and accept their help and as such make them more a burden - a weakness - to him instead of an asset that they really are and should be. Thingol does not realise that by reducing his wife and daughter to be mainly the objects of his worry he desubjectifies them and in doing do cuts himself off from his side from their valuable support - he renders himself unable to receive it. So Luthien experiencing the qualitative deterioration of her relationship with her father might also be shown in those two first episodes.

Ironically it is Luthien - with Beren - who by confronting Morgoth in time do save Doriath in the end - without themselves even noticing - but Thingol for sure does notice it. Thingol - at least partially - learns his lesson - and his relationship to his daughter is restored when he aknowledges her as an agent and not only an object of his protection.
Insomuch he learns - at least for a while - what Beren and Luthien have learned on their travels - that one has to respect those who one loves.
 
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Odola

Well-Known Member
Actually, having though about it for a few days, how about having the first episode focused more on Beren, getting to know him and his situation and the second on Luthien? Both can be show in both episodes, of course, but the focus being first an Beren and then on Luthien (following the title of the story) would allow us to get to know the characters on their own (acknowledging that each of them can stand on her/his own also.)
So we see the "added value" for each when they come together?
 

kanji_d

Active Member
I expect I'll have more to say later but I wrote up an old draft when I was first listening to SilmFilm that I've dug up where I outlined the broad story beats. It's not perfect and there are some things I'd change but in the meantime here it is as I originally wrote it:
  1. Barahir's Death
  2. Beren and Luthien -> Beren before Thingol
  3. Beren in Nargothrond
  4. Luthien imprisoned
  5. Beren and Finrod in Tol Sirion
  6. Luthien in Nargothrond
  7. The Rescue of Beren
  8. On the Borders of Doriath [this means Beren and Luthien attacked by Celegorm and Curufin]
  9. Journey to Angband/The Demands of the Feanorians [I'm not sure which demands I'm referring to here. I think it's where they request Thingol give them Luthien under threat of war, but I can't find substatiation for this on Tolkien Gateway.]
  10. Escape from Angband
  11. The Wolf-Hunt
  12. The Death of Beren
  13. The Dead that Live
Looking at this again I'd probably rewrite it to this:
  1. Aftermath of the Bragollach, the House of Beor are outlaws / Luthien established in Doriath
  2. The death of Barahir and Beren in Outlawry - end with the stumbling into Faerie and their first encounter
  3. Beren chases after Luthien and is eventually betrayed by Daeron to Thingol - climax is Thingol's demands
  4. Beren comes to Nargothrond while Luthien is imprisoned - Luthien finally escapes, just as Beren is leaving Nargothrond
  5. Luthien comes to Nargothrond where she meets the Feanorians. Finrod and Beren are captured by Sauron.
  6. While Beren and Finrod are imprisoned Luthien escapes the Feanorians with Huan's help. They come to Tol Sirion and it is cast down.
  7. A plot is Celegorm and Curufin swaying the people of Nargothrond from Orodreth (after news of Finrod's death?). Meanwhile Beren and Luthien are returning to Doriath, where they are ambushed by the Feanorians and Huan saves them.
  8. Probably a villain plot ties this episode together, but I'd like to suggest here that Beren sneaks away from Luthien, not telling her what has happened. He leaves and Luthien presumes he has been captured and taken to Angband. On the way they come across the disguises of Thuringwethil and Draugluin, and catch up to Beren. The episode ends either just before or just after their encounter with Carcharoth.
  9. Intrigue in Angband! This is the big episode with the dancing before Morgoth. At the same time the "demands of the Feanorians" I had in the earlier outline play out. End on Beren and Luthien returning to Doriath
  10. The Wolf-Hunt of Doriath - Beren's death. End with Beren in Mandos and Luthien grieving.
  11. Swaying of Mandos. Beren and Luthien are reunited and walk off into the sunset.
That leaves two episodes to be filled. One could be added near the beginning, definitely. But I like Episode 3 where I've put it. We could maybe have a Nargothrond focus episode? There's stuff to be figured out which I know we'll do as we expand the stories of the rest of Beleriand.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, it's definitely a challenge. You don't want to delay the love story of Beren and Lúthien meeting one another, and yet....

Another question is Timeline. We know the Dagor Bragollach happened in FA 455 (as it does in our story as well). So, the question is, when does the majority of Season 6 take place? It's meant to happen in 465-466...but that is based on Beren being on his own for 4 years in Dorthonion after the death of his father and the band of outlaws. So, how do we handle that? Do we keep the death of Barahir in 460, and have the majority of the story play out over 461-463? Or do we keep the meeting of Beren and Lúthien in 464, and simply have the outlaws survive longer than 5 years before Gorlim's betrayal? Or...something else?
 

kanji_d

Active Member
I think having the outlaws survive longer works, and I think we could get a good episode out of that. There's also the possibility, if we want to re-align the timeline later, that we could lengthen the time before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad by a few years, but that's a ways down the line.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
I think having the outlaws survive longer works, and I think we could get a good episode out of that. There's also the possibility, if we want to re-align the timeline later, that we could lengthen the time before the Nirnaeth Arnoediad by a few years, but that's a ways down the line.
More time for cool "orc hunting" scenes. ;)
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Well, not really more screentime - the goal is to get Beren to Doriath to meet Lúthien, and I don't think people want to delay that until Episode 4. And even if we do push that back to Episode 4, the reasoning will likely be to spend that extra time showing the attack on Tol Sirion and Sauron's necromancy, as well as the Nargothrond plotline. So, we're stuck with a situation of only having so much time on screen in the first 2-3 episodes to show the band of outlaws at all, and then boom they're dead. Whether that is 5 years after the battle or 9 years after the battle is more...bookkeeping.

Shifting the death of Barahir from 460 to 464 will have the least impact on the later story, as now everything will happen when it is 'meant' to. Moving the Quest for the Silmaril up to 461-462 would have a slight impact on later events. For instance, we know that this event is what prompts the formation of the Union of Maedhros, so he would now be starting a few years earlier with his plans. And the birth of Dior is in FA 470, so Tolkien has that happen just a few years after their marriage/return from death. So, if we keep that date (which we should, for other reasons), then we have to decide where the 'delay' is fitting in the story. Do they stay dead longer in our story, only returning after several years? Or do they just wait longer to have a child for some reason? Nothing insurmountable - these are minor issues. But we should choose at some point.

This is probably difficult to read, but I'm trying to create a snapshot of what our major characters are up to this season, so we can see at a glance where they are:
1644768874793.png

It might be easier to see in this version, where I broke it up by location rather than character:
1644769444248.png

A lot of these events can shift around. I'm trying to make sure the major stories we're trying to tell are all in here somewhere, and then we can finetune the placement.

At this point, I am thinking that the episode where Beren and Lúthien fall in love (which will end with Beren accepting Thingol's quest) should take place entirely in Doriath. Everything from the outside world should be shut away...we shouldn't be cutting to Nargothrond or villain plots or any of that - just within Doriath. We can cut to Daeron, to Thingol and Melian, etc - it's not going to be an uninterrupted uncomfortable focus on Beren and Lúthien. But I do think it will be important to stay in Doriath, just for that one episode. Whether that turns out to be episode 3 or 4 remains to be seen.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Alright, I think the first three episodes are mostly decided now.

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Episode 4 will be a bottle episode in Doriath, beginning with the meeting of Beren and Lúthien, telling their story, and ending with Thingol issuing the Quest and Beren's departure.
 
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