Worldbuilding in Valinor

Should we be mean and make all the dramatic scenes for the rest of the season take place at night? Heh

Thinking it through, the idea that the Feanorean camp being stalled makes sense. I'm sure that Maglor is having Eru's own time trying to keep his brothers in check. This would also mean that Maglor is, effectively, pinned down at Mithrim because he doesn't dare leave his brothers in charge to create what mischief they might.
 
I like the notion that the Noldor just can't resist building permanent facilities wherever they happen to reside, no matter how temporarily. They go to sleep on a mat under a tree, and wake up on the 4th story of a watchtower under construction.
 
in some way i would like the idea of the sun going up tje first time at the second the battle turns to tje feanorians side..
 
Reminiscent of the sun coming up behind Gandalf at the Battle of Helm's Deep?

Say what you will about Mr. Jackson's interpretation of the Lord of the Rings, but he sure knew how to create some memorable images.
 
i definitely think the feanorian warcamps quickly turned into permanent settlemets.i'll soon post a beleriand map on which -with the help of kwfs atlas- i tried to locate the lesser settlenents and roads/routes in beleriand..
 
This will be interesting because when Maedhros returns from captivity, he may already have in mind the plan to relinquish his (and his brothers) claim to the Kingship and also dispersing his brothers to avoid conflict. Seeing the 'camp' now becoming a thriving settlement will give him pause.
 
A few comments...

The sun will rise as Fingolfin's host arrives in Beleriand, and they're going to march right up to the gate of Angband. So....that's the triumphant point at that moment. There's not really a battle, but the orcs do flee before them, so....sure, battle of the Lammoth, done.

The Fëanoreans don't really win their battle (well, sorta, but Fëanor dies and they don't make it to Angband), and it is definitely under Starlight. Because it's literally called Dagor-nuin-Giliath, Battle under the Stars.
 
No, the Moon rises first. But really, the entire discussion of the Sun and Moon is for Season 3 and well away from the focus of this thread, which is meant to be Elven culture in Valinor (with some geography mixed in).
 
True enough...

speaking of Sun and moon then, what about Ezellohar, Mahanaxar and the two trees? There would be much stuff in the book of lost tales we could use as inspiration for more details... river Hiri/Kelusindi running down from Formenos to the trees, a well or river running from the lakes/cauldronsKulullin and Silindrin... what about the lake fôs almir/Faskala numen and tôn Sovriel? Question would be how the making of sun and moon will be depicted later...
 
Yes, those are exactly the kinds of details I want to consider filling in!

Valinor's distinguishing features are the Pelóri, with the Calacirya and tall Taniquetal, and (of course) the light of the Trees from Ezellohar. But this can't be a land without rivers, and so...where are them, what type, do they divide or connect the different parts of the land, etc!
 
I would love to see a river cascading down the Calacirya (in my mind, the Calacirya is at least a mile higher on the western end where Ezellohar is than on the eastern end). The river could flow through Tirion in a series of waterfalls reminiscent of the Jackson version of Imladris (which would bring an interesting thought that Imladris, like Gondolin, is an attempt to recreate Tirion). I think this for no other reason than that I like the look of cascading water.
 
i've actually started sketching out a map for valmar... any suggestions or wishes?
 

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I would request that the details in the published Silmarillion be included, but beyond that, it's up to you! (ie, all Lost Tales details completely optional)
 
yeah well... theres the two trees on the hill, surrounded by wells, two rivers running west from the trees and kelusindi runnung to the treef from north and the lake ton sovriel south of valmar, with rivers running from it west. valmar has tulkas court un the center, every vala has some sort of dwelling there, manwe in the east next to the gate, ulmo in the south close tothe water, orome also in the south, nienna in the west, aule in the center close to tulkas, mandos in the north and lorien in the southwest and vana outside near the trees.valmar has about 150 buildings, most of which are quite large and have domes and towers, but valmar is not overtly densely settled... there are a lot of greenspaces and quite a few small woodes areas and pools of water. i've left out the falasse numen, which i interpret as a huge bay in amana westetn coast... but the rivers from the two trees and the ton sovriel empty to it
 
Ray Burns said:
Don't get me wrong. I totally agree that it's what happens in the time that is more important than the time taken itself. My problem is that with three different things going on at once, it's hard to reconcile them all into the same timeframe without one looking much the worse. It's a pretty problem to be sure. How to reconcile the time it takes for the Valar to create the Sun and the Moon, Fingolfin's host to cross the Helcaraxe, and Feanor's group to a) fight one battle, b) have Feanor killed, c) have Maedhros betrayed, and d) have Maedhros hanging out (sorry, couldn't resist) while, presumably, Maglor assume the role of leader (if not King) and tries to keep his brothers in check.

Maybe a way to solve this is to include the first contacts with the Sindar and Thingol by the Feanorians and have King Maedhros send his brothers out to 'scout' for new lands. This would set up some of the original tension between Thingol and the Sons of Feanor and would also explain how once Maedhros is rescued, he can send his brothers off to their timeouts because they've already established beachheads in those new lands.
Click to expand...

I agree that the timeline must be compressed, but not every event needs to be uniformly compressed. When we look at each event or plot point, we need to be asking, "Does the duration of this event hold great significance in and of itself?" If the answer is no, then the duration of that event can be compressed. If the answer is yes, then the duration of that event should either be left as it was written in the text, or compressed only a little.

For example, I don't think the Feanorians need to take any longer than a month to reach Beleriand in the stolen ships, because A) nothing of note occurs on the ships, so the audience would likely lose interest if it took up a lot of screen time; and B) even though our story takes place in a world full of magic, taking 19 years to cross an ocean is going to be difficult for the audience to believe, for a lot of the reasons already mentioned in this thread (the fact that Columbus only took a year to reach the Bahamas from Spain, for instance).

The crossing of the Helcaraxe, on the other hand, should take much longer by comparison (months? a year?), because a huge amount of character development would be taking place among Fingolfin's host during that period. By the time they emerge from the Helcaraxe, they are a changed people. They have endured hardships that the Feanorian host can't possibly imagine (yet), which will be a huge contributor to the tensions between the two encampments around Lake Mithrim.

Likewise, Meadhros' period of imprisonment should last a relatively long time, because the duration of his imprisonment holds a great deal of significance, both for him personally and for the Noldor in general. I don't think he has to be gone for decades, but he at least has to be gone long enough that his return to Lake Mithrim is a BIG DEAL (for both emotional and political reasons).
 
I think that is a fair way of looking at it, Rachel. The significance and interest level of the event is more important than a precise passage of time, but we need to make the audience feel that some things were longer/more difficult to achieve, while others seem relatively easy and quick (by comparison).

And welcome to SilmFilm, by the way! :)
 
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