Beard or no beard, this is here the question

[Spartanisches Spielkalb]

In episode #1 Corvey is talking abut the matter if dwarven women having beards or not. Here's two bullet points I want to throw into the discussion, just referring to the famous quote of Appendix A to LotR:

It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women […] They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other people cannot tell them apart.

1. Nobody pays attention to the title of the section within Appendix A. It is Durin's Folk, not About Dwarves or such. There are six other houses so we have to be careful to transfer what it is said about this specific branch of dwarves to other folks. What do we know the eastern dwarves, for example? Do they have the same customs like Durin's Folk?
2. Be aware of the introduction, It was said by Gimli… So it's a statement of one dwarf familiar with the customs of his own house who grew up in the end of the third age. How much does he know about dwarven culture millennia before his birth? Maybe the eastern houses were proud of shaving, men and women alike?

As much as I'd like to see bearded dwarf-women in the show, breaking with this stereotype might turn out to be refreshing as well.

 

[Odola]

In episode #1 Corvey is talking abut the matter if dwarven women having beards or not. Here's two bullet points I want to throw into the discussion, just referring to the famous quote of Appendix A to LotR:

1. Nobody pays attention to the title of the section within Appendix A. It is Durin's Folk, not About Dwarves or such. There are six other houses so we have to be careful to transfer what it is said about this specific branch of dwarves to other folks. What do we know the eastern dwarves, for example? Do they have the same customs like Durin's Folk?
2. Be aware of the introduction, It was said by Gimli… So it's a statement of one dwarf familiar with the customs of his own house who grew up in the end of the third age. How much does he know about dwarven culture millennia before his birth? Maybe the eastern houses were proud of shaving, men and women alike?

As much as I'd like to see bearded dwarf-women in the show, breaking with this stereotype might turn out refreshing as well.

The problem is not only the beard but the whole of her appearance - she should also be dressed like a male - so no dress or ornaments that are exclusively and specifically female.

 

[MithLuin]

While I see your meaning, Odola, that would be more relevant if she were on a journey outside the dwarven halls. If she is completing a ritual at home, with only dwarves present, some of that description about similar appearances may not apply. But I do agree that when Tolkien described dwarven culture, he was careful to point out that the differences between males and females were expressed differently than in human cultures, to the point that humans were completely puzzled. So, a 'typical' sexual dimorphism that reads very easily as male or female to a modern human audience seems to be missing the point of how Durin's Folk ought to be depicted. Maybe she will have a very deep voice, but it does seem somewhat cowardly to give the male dwarf a prosthetic nose, while making sure the female dwarf princess still appears beautiful by human standards.


As for what Tolkien wrote, obviously there is material that is outside the text of LotR as well as the passage in Appendix A.

In HoME XI, even dwarf babies have beards. "For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike; nor indeed can their womenkind be discerned by those of other race, be it in feature, or in gait or in voice, nor in any wise save this: that they go not to war, and seldom save at direst need issue from their deep bowers and halls." (1951 Quenta) CJRT states that this is repeated in the Appendix material in HoME XII.

So, while there is room to interpret the passage in Appendix A more narrowly (only Durin's Folk, only dwarf women who are traveling, etc.), I think it is clear that Tolkien did intend for dwarf women to have beards, or rather, for beards to be considered a key feature of dwarves. All dwarves, as that passage is about the Naugrim in general.

Granted, J.R.R. Tolkien's idea of dwarves did evolve over the course of his lifetime, so any pre-Hobbit writings on dwarves would be wholly suspect, and even between writing the Hobbit and writing the Lord of the Rings, his ideas shifted. And I can understand why an adaptation would balk at depicting this visually. I just consider it cowardly, that's all.

 

[Odola]

Granted, J.R.R. Tolkien's idea of dwarves did evolve over the course of his lifetime, so any pre-Hobbit writings on dwarves would be wholly suspect, and even between writing the Hobbit and writing the Lord of the Rings, his ideas shifted. And I can understand why an adaptation would balk at depicting this visually. I just consider it cowardly, that's all.

Especially as this would be a natural path to address gender ambivalence issues in a coherant and not forced onto the story way, fitting the ME world. Why waste such an opportunity which would not alienate anyone in the fanbase?

 

[JJ48]

Especially as this would be a natural path to address gender ambivalence issues in a coherant and not forced onto the story way, fitting the ME world. Why waste such an opportunity which would not alienate anyone in the fanbase?

I think having dwarf women indistinguishable from dwarf men is something that can be easily written, but when trying to adapt it to screen, it would come across as confusing, distracting, and comical; especially since it was already the punchline of a joke in the LotR films. Removing the beards has no real impact on the lore or story, and will probably make it easier to take dwarves seriously, so I'm fine with the change.

 

[Odola]

I think having dwarf women indistinguishable from dwarf men is something that can be easily written, but when trying to adapt it to screen, it would come across as confusing, distracting, and comical; especially since it was already the punchline of a joke in the LotR films. Removing the beards has no real impact on the lore or story, and will probably make it easier to take dwarves seriously, so I'm fine with the change.

Why, plenty of beings are not obviously distingishable by sex? And there are kinds of people who are not very distingishable also?