Formenos

Octoburn

New Member
Hi!
I am new to the forums, and fairly new to the Project itself, only starting to listen a few weeks ago.

I am currently near the end of season 2 (and the sets/props forum for seems closed for some reason) I was listening to session 2-23, and heard the question posed of where Feanor got the idea of how to make Formenos defensible, and was very surprised that no one had mentioned Melkor. Melkor, of course, has already built Angband and seems to have spent a lot of time trying to influence Feanor.

We know Feanor did not really trust Melkor, so I'm not suggesting him literally being like: "so, Melkor, how would you build this defensible structure?" But rather that Melkor simply mentions it to him during their conversations at some point, or even to one of his sons, who passes the idea along.

Of course, the next question would be: Why does Melkor trust Feanor with the (probably limited) information of Angband's defenses? Perhaps when he is causing the strife among the Noldor and Valar, he suggests a fortress as a way to isolate Feanor, further driving the wedge into the house of Finwe?

I know I'm way behind, and I've had a couple of times I had ideas, but never big enough to bring up really.

I am looking forward to the discussions here!

Aure entuluva!

EDIT: Oh, I did forget to mention that there was a question previously posed that I had an idea for. And that was about how/where Feanor got the idea for swords. I actually had two ideas here.

A. Eonwe. Eonwe, "the greatest in arms" of the Valar, was mentioned to have a sword before. This would serve as a weapon, but also could serve as a sort of symbol of stature or power, as the Herald of Manwe. So perhaps Feanor (and others, Finwe even) would have swords as symbols as kings?/princes among the elves.

B. Palantiri. I believe that prior to the kinstrife among the Noldor, the dwarves were making weapons in Beleriand. What if Feanor looking into Middle-earth sees the dwarves making swords, killing orcs, and sees it as a good idea?

Again, sorry I am late to the party! I'm thoroughly enjoying the series so far and am hoping to catch up before season 5 starts
 
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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Firstly, welcome aboard. This project has been an exciting ride for us all and we hope it brings you the same enjoyment.

Hi!
I am new to the forums, and fairly new to the Project itself, only starting to listen a few weeks ago.

I am currently near the end of season 2 (and the sets/props forum for seems closed for some reason) I was listening to session 2-23, and heard the question posed of where Feanor got the idea of how to make Formenos defensible, and was very surprised that no one had mentioned Melkor. Melkor, of course, has already built Angband and seems to have spent a lot of time trying to influence Feanor.

We know Feanor did not really trust Melkor, so I'm not suggesting him literally being like: "so, Melkor, how would you build this defensible structure?" But rather that Melkor simply mentions it to him during their conversations at some point, or even to one of his sons, who passes the idea along.

Of course, the next question would be: Why does Melkor trust Feanor with the (probably limited) information of Angband's defenses? Perhaps when he is causing the strife among the Noldor and Valar, he suggests a fortress as a way to isolate Feanor, further driving the wedge into the house of Finwe?
I actually think your mention of the Palantiri would work well here. In our adaptation, Fëanor doesn't spend much time with Melkor, but he could be spying on the Dwarves.

I know I'm way behind, and I've had a couple of times I had ideas, but never big enough to bring up really.

I am looking forward to the discussions here!

Aure entuluva!

EDIT: Oh, I did forget to mention that there was a question previously posed that I had an idea for. And that was about how/where Feanor got the idea for swords. I actually had two ideas here.

A. Eonwe. Eonwe, "the greatest in arms" of the Valar, was mentioned to have a sword before. This would serve as a weapon, but also could serve as a sort of symbol of stature or power, as the Herald of Manwe. So perhaps Feanor (and others, Finwe even) would have swords as symbols as kings?/princes among the elves.

B. Palantiri. I believe that prior to the kinstrife among the Noldor, the dwarves were making weapons in Beleriand. What if Feanor looking into Middle-earth sees the dwarves making swords, killing orcs, and sees it as a good idea?

Again, sorry I am late to the party! I'm thoroughly enjoying the series so far and am hoping to catch up before season 5 starts
So, in this adaptation, Fingolfin actually makes the first elvish blade, with some advice from Melkor. Fëanor, of course, improves upon the design. If I recall, I think that Ëonwë did come up in regards to somewhere the Elves had seen swords before.
 

Octoburn

New Member
Firstly, welcome aboard. This project has been an exciting ride for us all and we hope it brings you the same enjoyment.
It has, definitely! I've gotten through two seasons in about two weeks and just started season three.

I actually think your mention of the Palantiri would work well here. In our adaptation, Fëanor doesn't spend much time with Melkor, but he could be spying on the Dwarves.
That's actually a good idea, as well! I never thought about him looking at the fortresses in Nogrond and Belegost.

So, in this adaptation, Fingolfin actually makes the first elvish blade, with some advice from Melkor. Fëanor, of course, improves upon the design. If I recall, I think that Ëonwë did come up in regards to somewhere the Elves had seen swords before.
I had actually forgotten about Fingolfin doing that. I'm 100% sure swords came up for Eonwe back in season 1. Maybe in the postproduction episode where how the Valar looked?

I've dabbled in screenwriting and have been published in comics before, and considered helping out with the writing team, but I'm far behind so I'm not sure I'd be able to jump in at this point.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
It has, definitely! I've gotten through two seasons in about two weeks and just started season three.



That's actually a good idea, as well! I never thought about him looking at the fortresses in Nogrond and Belegost.



I had actually forgotten about Fingolfin doing that. I'm 100% sure swords came up for Eonwe back in season 1. Maybe in the postproduction episode where how the Valar looked?

I've dabbled in screenwriting and have been published in comics before, and considered helping out with the writing team, but I'm far behind so I'm not sure I'd be able to jump in at this point.
Whenever you feel ready, you're welcome. It may be a while before we start script discussion for S05, though.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
It has, definitely! I've gotten through two seasons in about two weeks and just started season three.



That's actually a good idea, as well! I never thought about him looking at the fortresses in Nogrond and Belegost.



I had actually forgotten about Fingolfin doing that. I'm 100% sure swords came up for Eonwe back in season 1. Maybe in the postproduction episode where how the Valar looked?

I've dabbled in screenwriting and have been published in comics before, and considered helping out with the writing team, but I'm far behind so I'm not sure I'd be able to jump in at this point.
If you can catch up, or if you just want to skip ahead, the current podcast sessions are a review of the actual scripts that have been written for season 4. In the session on Nov. 7, we will be discussing the scripts for episodes 6-9. PDFs of the scripts have been posted on the forum, and, especially since you say you have experience in screenwriting, I would love your feedback on them.
 

MithLuin

Well-Known Member
I'll jump in and add my welcome to the project, Octoburn! I hope you're enjoying listening to the podcasts, and I'm sure you'll be caught up well before we get to Season 5. :D

I know it's frustrating to have creative ideas when everyone else has 'moved past' that time frame, but I do thank you for chiming in. After all, not everything is set in stone, and new suggestions do help breathe life into this project as it goes on.

When it comes to the Noldor, I am fine with allowing them to be inventive and original to a greater extent than you would maybe expect. They have the lion's share of elvish creativity when it comes to making things. The Vanyar beat them at creativity when it comes to poetry, and the Teleri are certainly better shipwrights. But...for everything else...there's the Noldor. Tolkien made a statement in his Letters about elvish creativity being a much more natural, easily come by trait for them than for humans.

We have made Finwë an architect. He doesn't have any particular craft specified for him in the text (Nerdanel's a sculptor, Rumil creates a writing system, Mahtan is a smith, etc). But, as king of the Noldor, surely he does have a craft he specializes or is skilled in? So...yeah, we picked architecture. He built Tirion. Which means...even if architecture isn't Fëanor's particular thing, he was raised by a father who was really into it, and thus probably had a broader starting point than you might expect going into it.

All this is to say...I am okay with Fëanor building a stronghold never having seen a stronghold before. I realize it wouldn't be technically advanced the way a stronghold built in a culture that experienced ongoing warfare would be, but I think he could make something solid and defensive 'from scratch', as it were.

That, and I have to admit to a visceral distaste of the idea of basing Formenos on Angband. There is plenty that is wrong about what happens with the Fëanoreans at Formenos, and they are certainly tainted by Melkor's lies, and growing in suspicion and paranoia and militancy. They've become insular, and that's not a good thing.

But Angband-level not a good thing? Ehhhh....

Melkor isn't creative, and can only imitate. Fëanor *is* creative - he can create on his own.
 

Octoburn

New Member
If you can catch up, or if you just want to skip ahead, the current podcast sessions are a review of the actual scripts that have been written for season 4. In the session on Nov. 7, we will be discussing the scripts for episodes 6-9. PDFs of the scripts have been posted on the forum, and, especially since you say you have experience in screenwriting, I would love your feedback on them.
I actually downloaded the scripts and went through them. But, I felt too far behind to offer much feedback. I'm near the end of season 3 now, so having not listened to S4 podcasts and trying to jump into S4E6 without reading other scripts was a bit jarring for me. I will likely just try to catch up on the podcasts and then read the scripts, and hopefully have that done in time for the next script review.

I'll jump in and add my welcome to the project, Octoburn! I hope you're enjoying listening to the podcasts, and I'm sure you'll be caught up well before we get to Season 5. :D

I know it's frustrating to have creative ideas when everyone else has 'moved past' that time frame, but I do thank you for chiming in. After all, not everything is set in stone, and new suggestions do help breathe life into this project as it goes on.

When it comes to the Noldor, I am fine with allowing them to be inventive and original to a greater extent than you would maybe expect. They have the lion's share of elvish creativity when it comes to making things. The Vanyar beat them at creativity when it comes to poetry, and the Teleri are certainly better shipwrights. But...for everything else...there's the Noldor. Tolkien made a statement in his Letters about elvish creativity being a much more natural, easily come by trait for them than for humans.

We have made Finwë an architect. He doesn't have any particular craft specified for him in the text (Nerdanel's a sculptor, Rumil creates a writing system, Mahtan is a smith, etc). But, as king of the Noldor, surely he does have a craft he specializes or is skilled in? So...yeah, we picked architecture. He built Tirion. Which means...even if architecture isn't Fëanor's particular thing, he was raised by a father who was really into it, and thus probably had a broader starting point than you might expect going into it.

All this is to say...I am okay with Fëanor building a stronghold never having seen a stronghold before. I realize it wouldn't be technically advanced the way a stronghold built in a culture that experienced ongoing warfare would be, but I think he could make something solid and defensive 'from scratch', as it were.

That, and I have to admit to a visceral distaste of the idea of basing Formenos on Angband. There is plenty that is wrong about what happens with the Fëanoreans at Formenos, and they are certainly tainted by Melkor's lies, and growing in suspicion and paranoia and militancy. They've become insular, and that's not a good thing.

But Angband-level not a good thing? Ehhhh....

Melkor isn't creative, and can only imitate. Fëanor *is* creative - he can create on his own.
Agreed. I did not necessarily mean that Feanor was basing Formenos on Angband, just that he could have been inspired by the only other person at this point to have built a fortress. I'm quite okay with Feanor and Finwe coming up with the idea independently as well, as you said, they are the Noldor. That create great stuff. I just thought it might be a good connection between Melkor and Feanor, even if done second or third hand.
 
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