Nature of Middle-Earth - on Eol's "immorality"

Odola

Active Member
I can follow you to some degree only.The conclusions of your chain of argument i do not share.
No need ;-)
I am happe that you see where I am coming from.
But what other coherant explanations for the phanomena we observe would you suggest?
Would interest me?
Tolkien inherited the elves from the medieval traditions which seem to reach farther even in the past. In those old European myths the "other people" had a slightly different set of morals, having no problems with behaviours the main human population would consider at least of doubtfull morality and being seemingly unaware that the main human population has a set of certain rules which they are violating. Tolkien seemed to want to minimise the differences as he went along, but those are still visible in the stories.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well is Eol painted in a positive light? Not so much.Whoever wrote his history, even in-world, did not seem to have much understanding or sympathy for him.He is pretty much painted as an anti-social, heartless, cold, egotistical, tyrannical being.

Personally... yes, i have some understanding and sympathy for him. Mostly because he is an underdog, an outcast, somebody who defies the great rulers... makes his own law. That is modern bias as well.
 

Odola

Active Member
Well is Eol painted in a positive light? Not so much.Whoever wrote his history, even in-world, did not seem to have much understanding or sympathy for him.He is pretty much painted as an anti-social, heartless, cold, egotistical, tyrannical being.

Personally... yes, i have some understanding and sympathy for him. Mostly because he is an underdog, an outcast, somebody who defies the great rulers... makes his own law. That is modern bias as well.
For me Eol symbolises why, even if the Valar were wrong in establishing their "Pleasure Island", where they are "hoarding bliss" - as the Tolkien Professor once said - (bliss, which is - by extention - missing in other places, making those even more unbearable than naturally they had to be - ) it is wrong for elves not answer their call and refuse to go there. Without the Valars' protection and guidance in a fallen marred world elves are doomed to ultimately become Eols - or even worse - faded, vindictive spirits always feeling wronged and envious of humans, who, for all their failings, are able to come by in this fallen world. This is why in the end all elves have either to sail or to fade.

Edit: For me Eol does not make his own rules, he simply follows the ancient impulses of the ius naturale - as you wisely stated above - and not having noticed that, as the whole nature has been marred, this law - which flows from it - is a result flawed also - and having not idea how to correct for this corruption.
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
I don't see that. Eol is still unique...

We don't hear much about other dark elves, but as far as i can see none others became Eols.
 

Odola

Active Member
We don't hear much about other dark elves, but as far as i can see none others became Eols.
Not literally. But I do think Eol is a place-holder for all the dark-elves out there, which we do not see. They were benign at first, teaching the Atani basic survival skills. But not having a rapid generational exchange of humans, which limits the damage experienced by one idividual, the permanent shadow over millenia would have an effect like that one that we see in Eol. For me Eol is clearly a tragic figure, a little like someone turned an alcoholic but without ever having actually decided to start drinking. And Aredhel is very naive in marrying someone clearly discfuctional. He is barely making it on his own, how can he carry on a relationship?
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Allright so you think the other dark elves are like Eol.I think that might be possible to a degree...
The silvan elves of Mirkwood or lorien certainly were not, but i admit we only meet them after they are already acculturated to the Sindar and Noldor... plus they are technically Nandor, not Avari.Don't know if that would be a big difference though.

I actually can quite imagine that if someone travelled to Rhun or Harad and met a tribe of Avari they would be very much like Eols folk,or the green elves... xenophobic, unfriendly... even potentially dangerous.
 
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