Script Discussion: S07E05

[Nicholas Palazzo]

Another post discussion thread.

 

[MithLuin]

The script discussion for Episode 5 was held on June 14th.

The twitch recording may be found here:

The episode outline is found here:

SilmFilm S07E05 Outline

The Silmarillion Film Project Season 7, Episode 5: Central conflict: A-Plot: Galadriel gets the support of the court of the emperor of Bree, and recruits Ulfang for her war effort. B-Plot: Húrin and Morwen navigate their early marriage, as well as understanding what it means to be Lord and L...

docs.google.com

Episode Outline
Season 7 Episode 5

Central conflict: Galadriel is in Bree to learn about this kingdom and to recruit them for an expedition to Beleriand to join the war effort.

A-Plot: Galadriel gets the support of the court of the emperor of Bree, and recruits Ulfang for her war effort.
B-Plot: Húrin and Morwen navigate their early marriage, as well as understanding what it means to be Lord and Lady of Dor-lómin.
C-Plot: Fingon and Maedhros visit Dor-lómin to recruit the humans to the Union.
POV character: Galadriel
Frame:. ???

Teaser: Frame

Act I : FA 464
Scene 1: Bree - Emperor stops his parade to welcome Galadriel to Bree. She tells him that she’s heard the legend of his city and wants to see it for herself (flattery). Ulfang wants to know what the hold up is, and is rather dismissive of Galadriel (uninterested). Emperor invites her to the palace. The emperor’s honor guards grab a chair and pick her up to carry her around (she is clearly uncomfortable). Galathil wants no part of this, but tags along from a distance. Ulfang rides in the procession on a horse.

Scene 2: Dor-lómin - Fingon and Maedhros are riding out to visit the House of Hador in Dor-lómin. Fingon is giving demographic and cultural info to help Maedhros understand their organization and is back to playing anthropologist. Húrin and Huor are getting ready to host their elven visitors. Morwen is holding court in the Bëorian side of town (frail Emeldir seated to the side). Húrin passes her by on his way to meet his visitors. Introductions all around (no mention of Morwen). Húrin remarks on how far Maedhros is from Himring and pledges the support of the Men of Dor-lómin to Fingon’s cause. He can tell something is afoot and wants to be part of it.

Scene 3: Bree - Galadriel receives a tour of the town/empire on the way to the palace. They go to the top of the hill to look out over the realm, they see the artwork showing how the empire portrays its own history of conquest. Getting to know you conversation - let’s find out who each other is. He wants to know where she’s from. She gets a small history lesson about how the kingdom of Bree grew into the empire of Bree. Ulfang’s role as conqueror returning from a border conflict. Galadriel’s interest is piqued. Arrival at the palace.

Scene 4: Dor-lómin - House of Húrin and Morwen - in media res. An argument is brewing in their bedchamber in the evening. Morwen is peeved that Húrin pledged the support of all the men of Dor-lómin without talking to her first. The House of Bëor can march to war, sure, but not by a unilateral decision of the lord of Dor-lómin. Húrin doesn’t understand what the problem is - he thought her people were supportive of fighting Morgoth? She wants to discuss the plan before committing her people to this course of action. Integration and communication has been an issue - but now they need to figure it out. Go to bed mad, frustrated and unresolved.

Act II :
Scene 5: Bree - palace - .Galadriel is in her accommodations in the palace. She compares notes with Galathil. Galadriel is enthusiastic about the possibilities - they’ve got armies and seem quite effective. Galathil urges caution - we don’t know much about these people. Fighting evil in a foreign land doesn’t seem to be their motivation, so…how did this get this way? Morgoth is not a threat here; things seem pretty good over here east of the mountains.

Scene 6: Dor-lómin - Maedhros looking towards mountains/Angband. Fingon wants to hear Maedhros’ initial thoughts. Maedhros is impressed with Húrin and Huor. Not sure how effective their army would be though.. Maybe if they had more numbers? Fingon would likely tell a story of how effective they’ve been in battle, as well as a reminder of how many have been lost since the Siege. Maedhros admits it’s a good start.

Scene 7: Bree - palace - Music at dinner. Musician asks Galadriel what her people’s songs are like? Galadriel shares with the people of Bree about Beleriand using Faerian drama. She presents sweeping landscapes that are open and beautiful. She shares the culture of the Noldor which is unknown to the Men. And she intimates that all of this beauty will be lost in the war. Musician and some of the young nobles are impressed and filled with wonder - let’s go! Including the emperor’s son. The emperor and Ulfang figure out what Galadriel is looking for. Emperor seems displeased.

Scene 8: Dor-lómin - Emeldir’s house. Morwen is handing off caretaking responsibilities to Rían (perspective of young people who have known life in Ladros, Brethil, and Dor-lómin). Húrin comes by and asks how she’s doing. Morwen bites off his head - how do you think she’s doing? She’s dying. And now how will my people be cared for?

Act III :
Scene 9: Barrow-downs - Emperor takes his son out to the barrow downs at night to meet the local Necromancer (Sauron) to take off the ‘enchantment’. On the way, the emperor expresses his concern about his heir being in a vulnerable position and explains why he absolutely cannot go off and fight some foreign war. When they get there, the emperor asks Sauron for a solution to his elf-lady problem - please, take her enchantment off my son! Sauron suggests solving two problems at once - send Ulfang over the mountains, and your son stays safe. The emperor says Ulfang will never go for it - he’s not an idiot. Son makes best argument as to why sending an army west is the best idea ever. Emperor realizes this might work. .

Scene 10: Dor-lómin - funeral of Emeldir - Morwen gives a speech telling the story of the House of Bëor and how Emeldir led her people in this heritage (looking for the light in the west) to find their home here.

Scene 11: Bree - Galadriel seeks out Ulfang to try to convince him to join her cause. Ulfang is rather dismissive of her. He tells her that he’s not interested in her war, and that everyone speaks of their enemies as evil - but can she honestly say that her side has slain no innocents? His jaded approach and unwillingness to see Morgoth as a devil discourages Galadriel.

Scene 12: Dor-lómin - Húrin presents Morwen with a gift. She scoffs - this isn’t going to fix things between us or assuage my grief. He points out, no, I understand now. This item, it’s from your culture - it’s valuable, it speaks to your history with the elves, and it’s unique. I understand why you are afraid to lose your culture. But that’s not what I would ask of you. My people can learn from you, and you can learn from us, and together we will both be enriched.

Act IV:
Scene 13: Bree - Emperor pitches the ‘go west, young man’ plan to Ulfang. Ulfang is not convinced - why would I do that? Emperor suggests it can be a legacy to his sons to be viceroys of these open lands.

Scene 14: Dor-lómin - Húrin, with Morwen by his side, gives a speech about their peoples integrating and working together (stronger together, solidarity, etc). Maedhros witnesses this and realizes that Húrin makes a good ally who can convince others to join.

Scene 15: Bree - Emperor makes speech about what they’re going to do - Ulfang is going to lead a new expedition! The people of the empire are going to experience new lands. Galadriel and Galathil have a telepathic conversation about this news. Galathil is concerned with how fast this is happening - I thought we were going to get to know each other first? Galadriel reassures her that things go quickly with humans, and that’s just the way it is.

Scene 16: Dor-lómin - some time later - Húrin and Morwen are watching the young men of the house of Bëor training with the House of Hador. Morwen informs him that she’s pregnant. Overjoyed, he reacts by overtly showing her affection. She’s surprised but pleased.

Tag: Frame

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Nick - If noone else wants ep 5, I'd be willing to give it a go (assuming it doesn't need to be finished until beginning of October)

 

[MithLuin]

History of Fingon and Maedhros and their anthropological study of Men (may be pertinent to this episode!)

In Season 5, Finrod was naturally the first of the Noldor to meet Men, and his friendship with Bëor lasted the length of Bëor's lifetime and extended to Bëor's descendents (all the way to Beren).

But other Elves also observed the arrival of Men, including the Green Elves (who were none too pleased with the arrival of the humans of the Estolad [and their pigs]). Fingon and Maedhros were also interested observers. Their initial concern was to determine whether or not the Men were a threat (they'd been warned in Valinor that Men would usurp them....but by Morgoth, who was maybe lying). Later, it becomes a matter of finding a use for them, or figuring out how the Men fit into the realms of the Noldor in Beleriand.

Here are some points in this story.

Season 5 Episode 1: FA 340. Maedhros and Maglor are hunting with Finrod in East Beleriand when Finrod discovers the Men, and so they become the bearers of the news that the Second-born have arrived to the other Noldor. They travel first to Dorthonion and visit with Angrod and Aegnor, and then on to Hithlum to tell Fingolfin and Fingon.

Scene 13: Barad Eithel - Maedhros and Maglor bring the news of the arrival of Men to Fingolfin and Fingon. Fingolfin wants to know the numbers of Men, and they tell them the group is small, but Finrod reports rumors of more in the East. Where will these Men live, if more and more of them come into Beleriand? Maedhros shares his possible concern about the ‘usurpers,’ and Fingon volunteers to keep an eye on the situation in East Beleriand. He will find out what sort of people these Men are, and whether or not they are trustworthy or foes.

Season 5 Episode 3: FA 365. Fingon has been staying with the Fëanoreans in East Beleriand, and trying to learn more about the Men. He observes from a distance, but takes more interest in Nargothrond. They are confronted with the mortality of Bëor, but also with how swiftly the humans adapt.

Scene 6: East Beleriand - Fingon shows Maedhros the Haladin settlements in Thargelion. Fingon has been observing the Men from a distance, but has had few interactions with Men, and doesn’t know what to make of them. He’s not sure what their long-term goals are; they don’t seem very organized. Probably not a threat?

Scene 11: East Beleriand - Fingon and Maedhros meet Caranthir. They are all puzzled by the Men. Fingon says that Nargothrond seems to be the only place the Men have made any permanent home. Caranthir has no desire to have the Men living in Keep Helevorn, nor is he going to offer to build them homes. Maedhros decides to let them be for now. Caranthir wants to know what the plan for the Men is. Fingon and Maedhros are headed to Nargothrond to figure out more about the Men’s future.

Scene 13: Nargothrond - Fingon and Maedhros arrive in Nargothrond. It is a time of mourning. Finrod plays the song he first played when he met Bëor. Bëor’s body is laid out in state on a stone slab. People place flowers on the stone table.

Scene 16: Nargothrond - Fingon and Maedhros discuss the mortality of humans. Fingon is impressed with what the House of Bëor has accomplished in just 25 years - they make the most of the time they have.

Season 5 Episode 6: FA 392. Fingon and Elrhûn attend the annual Estolad gathering, observing the rite of passage of the young men. Fingon recruits soldiers to come with him to the north (including an 18-year-old Hador). The success of Fingon's anthropological studies bears immediate fruit. Maedhros is not part of this adventure.

Scene 3: Estolad - At the annual gathering of the semi-nomadic people of Estolad in one place (for trade, to resolve disputes, etc) Hador (18) and Thorn* (17) are preparing for their rite of passage. .... Fingon and Elrhûn enter the main encampment at Estolad during the rite of passage and observe it.

Scene 5: Estolad - Fingon, wearing the Dragonhelm, recruits a group of young men from among the people of Estolad to join him in the north. He has grasped the ‘carpe diem’ nature of mortals, and thus is able to inspire many young men (30-40) to join him in this opportunity to see their enemy up close and fight alongside the Noldor to defend the lands of Beleriand. Hador and Thorn are among those who join Fingon.

Scene 7: Outpost - Fingon delivers the Men of Estolad to the outpost (replacement of Fort Soronume, which was destroyed by Glaurung), less than a day’s ride from the gates of Angband. He stations them there so they can be trained in warfare. The leader of this outpost is a bit confused - what is he meant to do with this group of young Men? Fingon leaves him to it.

Scene 16: Barad Eithel - Hador returns triumphantly to Barad Eithel with the surviving escaped prisoners. Fingon and Fingolfin are impressed. Hador receives the Dragon-helm as he arrives. Annael is reunited with his wife and son.

Season 5 Episode 7: FA 395. The Men of the Estolad gather for their meeting again, and this time the Council of the Estolad is meant to determine the future relationship of these Men to the Elves. Hador wants to convince the men to follow him to Dor-lómin (the land has already been promised to him by Fingolfin), while Amlach is seemingly against having anything to do with the Elves. But of course 'Amlach' is really Sauron, soooooo....real Amlach decides he has to see this conflict through and goes to Himring with his sons. The people of Hador go to Dor-lómin.

Scene 3: Amlach’s Encampment - Maedhros enters the encampment; Amlach is not happy to see his elvish guest. Is this another restriction? We were leaving anyway. No, no - Maedhros is here to recruit for the war effort. Maedhros is trying to establish the obligation the Men of Estolad have to the Siege of the Noldor. Seeing Men staring at his missing hand, Maedhros tells of his captivity in Angband. Amlach is not moved, and just wants to get away from these troublesome Elves.

Scene 15: Estolad - Finding the grounds empty, Amlach and his friends stumble out of the forest. What...what has happened? They find out that the Council is over, and that ‘Amlach’ had spoken strenuously against the elves. Shocked to hear this, Amlach sets out for Himring.

Season 5 Episode 9: FA 412. Fingolfin calls a Council in Dorthonion to discuss the Siege. Fingon is in attendance (along with Men of Ladros and Dor-lómin), but Maedhros sends Maglor, as he is focused on work at Himring (and trying to recruit the Dwarves).

Scene 2: Mithrim - Fingolfin sends a delegation to Dorthonion with his banner. Fingon will be his father’s spokesman to discuss the state of the Siege. Fingon takes Hador, Rhogrin and Annael with him on this mission.

Scene 8: Dorthonion - Council of the Elves to discuss the Siege. Council begins with security measures (sweep room, close shutters). Delegations enter. Fingon, Maglor, Angrod/Aegnor, Hador, and Andreth represent their peoples. Rhogrin and Annael are present to provide knowledge of Angband. Hador’s son Galdor was born this year. Andreth and Aegnor discreetly make eyes at each other (Angrod notices). They discuss the need for more defenses on the flanks of the Siege.

Season 5 Episode 10: FA 436. Fingon attends the double wedding in Dor-lómin.

Scene 1: Dor-lómin - Fingolfin and Fingon are travelling to Dor-lomin for a human wedding celebration. Fingon gives his status report on how the Men of Hithlum are doing - he finds them valorous and impatient, but their mortality excuses their impatience. They can’t be kept on high alert forever and not take action.

Scene 3: Dor-lómin - Fingolfin and Fingon meet the wedding party. Hador introduces his sons (Galdor, Gundor), and daughter (Gloredhel). Elves are surprised about how quickly the children have grown up. Olórin is a background character. Reinforcing the relationship between Hador and Fingon and Fingolfin.

Scene 7: Dor-lómin - Fingolfin casually meets with Andreth and Barahir during the wedding preparations. Fingolfin has heard good things about Barahir from Aegnor and Angrod. Andreth makes a subtle face. Explanation of Barahir’s role in the Siege. Mention of the Fëanorean neighbors.

Then, after the death of Aredhel and Fingolfin's dream-vision with Olorin, we have this scene:

Scene 15: Dor-lómin - Fingolfin awakens and seeks out Fingon. Fingon, removed from the festivities, has an uneasy feeling. They discuss their concerns for the future. Setup for the big push.

Season 5 Episode 11 Fingolfin's Big Push (and also the Athrabeth). Fingon and Maedhros are not the focus of this episode, but we do catch final glimpses of them before the Dagor Bragollach begins.

Maedhros sits low in a high-backed chair in his solar at Himring, staring intently at the Iron Mountains on his map. The door opens, and an attendant ushers a dwarf in; he points out the window to the new, half-built stone gates of Himring, grey against the greenery of spring.

Hador lies in state in Dor-lómin at autumn. His sons are visibly older, weeping silently.

...

The sons of Hador consult with Fingon over a small map of the North of Beleriand at Barad Eithel in summer. Fingon points to Dorthonion and Ard Galen. Galdor and Gundor nod assent, and don their helms, turning to leave.

 

[MithLuin]

From this, we see that while Maedhros and Fingon both began the season by having questions about the place of Men in Beleriand, Fingon was the one who invested and spent time cultivating those relationships (with both Hador and his sons). Maedhros, meanwhile, made some effort to engage with the Men, but was largely unsuccessful and devoted more of his efforts to working with dwarves on construction projects. He did, however, acquire the loyal service of Amlach, due to Sauron's manipulation.

Here is an example of Maedhros' interactions with Amlach's descendants in Episode 12 (the Bragollach) FA 455:

EXT. HIMRING. MAIN GATE
At the foot of the hill, on the walls of the main gatehouse, Maedhros stands with his officers - ANGRUIN, RUTHRON, and Carnil - and a couple of human chieftains - AMRACH and MALACH his face impassive stone that only somewhat masks the flashing anger in his eyes.

CARNIL​

The riders from the outposts
say that Maglor’s Gap has
been overrun. With Aglon
already taken, nothing will
prevent the enemy from
surrounding us.

MAEDHROS​

It is so.

RUTHRON​

Lord, what are your orders?
Can the gates hold against
this force and those which
will surely reinforce it once
the beleaguering is complete?

MAEDHROS​

Nay, they will not.

The officers look at each other, somewhat stunned by this frank admission.

MAEDHROS​

Angruin, you will take your
archers to the northwestern
wall above the gate and rain
missiles down upon the
approach. Force them to pay
for their assault as dearly
as possible.

Angruin bows slightly, and waits for Maedhros to finish.

MAEDHROS (CONT'D)​

Ruthron, your soldiers will
range the outer curtain. They
may consider the gatehouse
too easily defended and
choose to attempt a breach
elsewhere.

RUTHRON​

Yes, Lord.

As Maedhros turns to CARNIL.

MAEDHROS​

Carnil, you will hold the
gatehouse.

Carnil nods, surveying the armies outside the wall, but his
expression betrays no dismay.

MAEDHROS​

Make certain that any who
seek to pass within pay a
heavy toll, but do not spend
the lives of your soldiers
needlessly. When the gates
are broken, retreat to the
walls. Hold that section of
the wall as long as you can.

AMRACH​

Lord, no less than the Noldor
have the sons of Amlach
waited to do battle with the
Shadow in the North. Many of
us would fain meet this army
out upon the field where our
riders could harry them.

For the first time since the siege of Himring began
forming, Maedhros smiles.

MAEDHROS​

Neither would I have your men
spend your lives needlessly,

Amrach, son of Imlach. The
first ward shall be your
field. Your riders will slow
down the progress of the
invaders after the gate
falls. Make the ground
between here and the second
gate precious to them. But do
not allow yourselves to
become surrounded. The
archers upon the walls will
cover your retreat to the
second ward.

The grandson of Amlach seems satisfied with these orders
and nods to his companion.

I thought this might be a helpful review before we take a look at the visit of Maedhros and Fingon to Dor-lómin in this episode, especially since we might want to compare/contrast to their Season 5 visit to Nargothrond a bit. What has changed from FA 365 til FA 464? What remains the same?

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Thanks Marie. This is very helpful. There are really only two scenes with F&M in them so I'll make sure they follow from these previous experiences that have been shown in Season 5. It does kinda confirm thought that Fingon has been much more hands on in getting to know human culture than Maedhros has.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Putting the finishing touches on Episode 5 script. This is the first opportunity to really see the 'Empire of Bree'. We still need a name for this ancient Empire (from the Breelanders of the 3rd age perspective). I doubt actually that the 3rd age Breelanders will have even heard of this name, but it would be cute I think for it to be something that 'Bree' could emerge from as a name. Any suggestions? (I've named the Emperor 'Gurzhas'). (Ulfang is the commandor of his armies).

 

[David_M_R]

What's the linguistic inspiration for 'Gurzhas'?

 

[Ilana Mushin]

What's the linguistic inspiration for 'Gurzhas'?

Phonological aesthetic. We don't know the language that these guys would speak.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Gurzhas will be given a name by Galadriel 'Arthond' (Noble-shield) in this episode once he commits his army to go West.

 

[David_M_R]

Phonological aesthetic. We don't know the language that these guys would speak.

OK. Some primary-world place names that are very old with a similar aesthetic would be acceptable models, then. I guess some Br- prefix, or, better, B(-)r- (with a suitable vowel sound) would be ok?

I can imagine something like how Valarin names get very worn down to their Quenya equivalences (eg Tulukhastāz > Tulkas), except we don't need to go that extreme. Just to throw something in the ring, how about a four-syllable name B(-)/r(-)l/l(-)/---, if you get the idea of the notation. But one could even un-mutate (some of) the consonants.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

OK. Some primary-world place names that are very old with a similar aesthetic would be acceptable models, then. I guess some Br- prefix, or, better, B(-)r- (with a suitable vowel sound) would be ok?

I can imagine something like how Valarin names get very worn down to their Quenya equivalences (eg Tulukhastāz > Tulkas), except we don't need to go that extreme. Just to throw something in the ring, how about a four-syllable name B(-)/r(-)l/l(-)/---, if you get the idea of the notation. But one could even un-mutate (some of) the consonants.

I agree the name should be at least 4 syllables long

 

[kanji_d]

Just tossing something together:

ko-Baranillavo

As a proposed translation:
ko: prefix to indicate a place
bara: hill
nil: fort
lavo: town

A very intended side affect of this is that "Bree hill" can be parsed as hill hill.

 

[Odola]

Just tossing something together:

ko-Baranillavo

As a proposed translation:
ko: prefix to indicate a place
bara: hill
nil: fort
lavo: town

A very intended side affect of this is that "Bree hill" can be parsed as hill hill.

was this not previously discussed in this dedicated thread? https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/a-name-for-bree.5305/

 

[David_M_R]

Yes, I was thinking we had done that already, but since there was a name for the Emperor, I was hoping the name would have a similar phonoaesthetic quality.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Sorry I forgot all about that thread. I'll go back over it and make a decision. I do like the idea that it has several syllables.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

Here is the link to the script for Episode 5: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkjT7hbric5UK7S1kcH39gwQGq6R6sEsLVOWUXqI-hQ/edit?tab=t.0
I've gone with names for Bree (Sûdh-Beredin) and the Emperor (Ibang) suggested by @Haerangil (credited in the script). Thanks. I think because I am a linguist in my day job I get nervous about linguistic invention.

 

[David_M_R]

The Emeldir death scene got me welling up, I must admit. And Morwen's later speech taking on her role as the Beorian leader was surprisingly moving.

 

[Ilana Mushin]

The Emeldir death scene got me welling up, I must admit. And Morwen's later speech taking on her role as the Beorian leader was surprisingly moving.

Thank you David. I have to admit welling up as well while writing the death bed scene. I’m glad it wasn’t just me.