Script Discussion Schedule and Updates

Well, I'm awake

I mean, technically.

Edit: were we still using hangouts or did I miss an update somewhere?
 
Okay here is what we have for next Friday's session. I would like to be able to send it to them at least a few days in advance, so they have the opportunity to read them over before going live.

Please note that there are some missing frames - the final three episodes (11-13) need Frame.

Brian, I've trimmed your commentary out of Episode 9, but tried to leave some of the options there in brackets. Feel free to edit options back in.
{Basically, we'll never get through all the outlines if Corey Olsen stops to talk about the Mirror of Galadriel, so....I don't want to remind him that he said he'd address that. But if you think it's important...go for it.}

Other than the Frame, I think these are ready...enough. But certainly if anyone wants to edit or polish, please do!
 

Attachments

I'll try to get in there today and see if I can do anything with the frame. I'm sure you've cut to the root of whatever matters were up in the air, so I'll just leave them to the execs for now. I much prefer to hold the Professor's feet to the fire and make him get into the mucky-muck than worry too much about his precious schedules, and I think the Mirror is kind of a big deal that should be addressed, primarily because I would hate to reduce it to the sort of overt "HAY REMEMBER THIS THING FROM STAR WARS" that kept popping up in Rogue One, and I feel like we haven't really nailed down the particulars of why the Mirror is in there yet.

But it's a bit late in the day for me to start, so I'm not about to commit to getting much of anything useful done today. I'll read through on my commute to work, and my focus we'll be the frame. If I manage to get anything done, you'll see it in about 10 hours, give or take. Otherwise, I'm quite sure you've done a great job with it, as usual. 🙂
 
He explained his reasons for wanting to use the Mirror of Galadriel in the frame during one of the sessions focused on the Frame. But I can see why you would find this all suspect, and important to handle well. Since it is an important device in Lord of the Rings, it matters that nothing we do with it here contradict future appearances, so to speak. As well as avoiding the 'we did this because we can!' reasoning for including things.

It's not that I don't think it's important...I just don't want to sacrifice getting feedback on Episode 13 because we get a Mirror of Galadriel tutorial instead.

No rush...as long as we have something ready to go by this time next week, we should be fine.
 
I should probably go back and listen to that again, then, I've been keeping up to date but I don't remember that episode at all.

To that end, I probably won't make any hay over it... assuming I can get anything done today at all anyway.

Mostly on account of this weekend is kind of booked for me and there's no way I'm getting anything at all done tomorrow or Friday. I'd prefer to have something sent off before the weekend's out.
 
It's the January 13th session, which would be useful to listen to if you're focusing on the Frame Narrative anyway.
 
Oh, right, the Mirror first came up in the October episode. That's what you meant. ....ugh, where is my memory? I'll have to look up the timing on that and report back. That's when he gave his more full explanation of the role of the Mirror in the Frame.

http://media.podcast.s3.amazonaws.com/TolkienProf/TolkienProf324.mp3

Okay, it shows up at the 34 minute mark of the bonus session, and ends by the 50 min. mark (when we switch to the Arwen's mentor character discussion, and then 55 min it's the festival). 39 min. is when Corey starts talking about it being perilous as a guide of deeds. He decides that she should see 1st Age Valinor in the Mirror, and her question should be 'I don't know what Valinor is like.' There is also meant to be a Lúthien-as-Thuringwethil shot, according to Brian. Both Karita and Trish seemed to like this use of the Mirror. Karita has suggested (as well) a glimpse of Celebrían arriving in Tol Eressëa (though that depended on how Celebrían's rescue and fading was handled). At 1:48 is where the decision to push the Mirror scene later in the season happens.

As an aside, Karita brought up daisy chains, and I ended up naming the friend character 'Daisy' [Eirien] 😉. Which might sound too close to 'Arwen' but what can you do?

The Jan 13th session has only a brief reference to the Mirror. So, starting at 1:14, they start talking about the remembrance of the Trees in the Frame, and specific events that they want to occur. Arwen meeting the human woodsmen is going to be in Season 2 Episode 8 - Melkor's Trial. The Mirror is mentioned at 1:47. Episode 10 is supposed to have tension between Arwen and Galadriel in the Frame.
 
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So....Frame for the end of the Season. Let's hash that out by Wednesday at the latest (Brian, I know you're busy this weekend - no worries).

Episode 11 is the Formenos episode. It focuses on both isolation and militarization. I think this would be the ideal place to focus on bringing out Elladan's dark side. They've already talked about the rescue of Celebrían, and we've already seen him react to news of a 'mysterious evil being' in Episode 8. So, we have the necessary background in place. What we don't have...is an incident that could happen in peaceful Lothlorien to provoke his 'any day I can kill orcs is a good day...don't get in my way' mood. We can have the brothers depart Lothlorien in this episode - the end of their 'visit', and their return to Rivendell or adventures in the wild or what have you.

Episode 12 is the Feast of Reconciliation. If we're going to have Galadriel eulogize the Two Trees (seemingly as an exile of Valinor rather than giving away that they are dead), now is the time. The mallorns of Lothlorien are a perfect visual, and if she is going to sing her 'I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold, and leaves of gold there grew...' song, this might be the place for it. The exile of Galadriel in Middle Earth is then put in direct relation to the exile of Fëanor to Formenos, and the hope that some day there might be reconciliation for her, too - melancholy but hopeful in the Frame? This also might be the last time we see Galadriel-in-the-Frame, as we introduced her in Episode 2; finishing with just Celeborn and Arwen might be preferred?

Episode 13 - our double episode - needs to resolve everything in the Frame (to this point). Celeborn, Galadriel and Arwen have to express the different ways in which they have chosen Middle Earth as a home. Celeborn - Middle Earth has always been my home; what else is there? Galadriel - as an exile far from home, I've had to make the most of building a home for myself in a foreign land among alien peoples. Arwen - while the door to Valinor is open to me, Middle Earth is my home and I feel I have a purpose here to fulfill.

Thoughts?
 
In the years immediately following the Battle of 5 Armies and destruction of Dol Guldor, there should be no bands of orcs roaming anywhere. They've all hidden away to lick their wounds during this time.

I mean, we could change that. But...this is meant to be a time of peace and totally orc-free travel. Elladan could insist on visiting the ruins of Dol Guldor on their way home to Rivendell, out of some sort of morbid fascination or insistence that he thinks something is there. Or...they could enter Moria. There are definitely orcs *in* Moria during this time.
 
Well, if this is happening soon after the Battle of Five Armies, (which happened in season 1), couldn't they be trying to find a place to do that hiding?
 
Okay...suggestion for Episode 11.

Elladan and Elrohir bid farewell to Arwen (and Galadriel and Celeborn), and set off back for Rivendell. After they leave Lothlorien, they pass right by the Gate of Moria on their way to the pass on Caradhras [that the Fellowship tried to take]. While walking by, they discuss one of the old battles that happened there (burned dwarf reference?), and Elladan expresses the desire to go through Moria rather than around, since clearly there is still evil lurking within and it will be a good chance to kill some orcs. Elrohir is more alarmed by this suggestion and talks him out of it - references to Durin's Bane, and stories of people who enter Moria never returning. As both Gandalf and Aragorn will later enter Moria, it's not unheard of for someone to go through, but it is a foolhardy risk when there's no reason to. Perhaps the lingering suggestion of 'another time, then.'

This would set up Moria as an ominous place that the audience will expect to see again in the future. Elrohir could say something about who would want to go through that black pit if he didn't have to?!

We can't really have them go through Moria, as there's not enough time to build up the risk and resolve it in like 5 minutes of Frame Story, and this has little to do with Arwen. At the most, there could be a memory of something she said to them that flashes up during their debate about whether or not to enter Moria. She could be the reason neither of them want to throw their lives away recklessly. After all, someone hell-bent on fighting, with a vendetta against evil creatures and no wife or kids to worry about can do fool-hardy things. What's the harm in risking your life if there's no one who depends on you? The pain it would cause to those who love you can be a deterrent, so we could see that 'Don't make Arwen cry again!' is the motivation for not doing something stupid at this point in their lives.

Here is the map of the area, showing how Moria is definitely on the way back to Rivendell. We also know that the twins took the pass near Caradhras when they delivered the news of the Council of Elrond to Galadriel in Lothlorien, so it makes sense they would choose that route. Celebrían was ambushed in the High Pass near Rivendell.
middle-earth-map18.jpg


In one rather memorable statement, Rich Mullins pointed out: "One of the great advantages of being single is you can still pick up hitchhikers. If you're married, you don't want to get, you know, slit or anything. Cause you got a family to support. If you're single and you die it doesn't really matter. So you're free to do anything you want to do. I love that!"
Substitute 'go looking for orcs' for 'picking up hitchhikers' and you get the idea.
 
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True story - I may have once picked up a hitchhiker when I was 20 because I was listening to 'Screendoor on a Submarine' when I drove past him 😉. So I could only laugh years later when I realized he would have agreed with that decision! Needless to say, no one else in my life agrees with that logic, so I always get scolded when I do rash things. But....
 
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