Bruce N H
Active Member
Hi all,
As we've been reading through Faces together, I've seen a lot of echoes of other works, either earlier works that may or may not have influenced Lewis, later works that may or may not have been influenced by Lewis, or other Lewis works that (unsurprisingly) use similar phrases, images, or ideas. I figured I'd start a thread of these and invite others to add to it. I don't have any huge conclusions other than observations, but I'm sure Corey would note that several of these could be the starting point for a compare/contrast moot paper.
Okay, and in no particular order:
Very early in the book in chapter 1 we are introduced to Ungit: "In the furthest recess of her house where she sits it is so dark that you cannot see her well, but in summer enough light may come down from the smoke-holes in the roof to show her a little. She is a black stone without head or hands or face, and a very strong goddess." Much later in section 2 chapter 2 we will learn that Ungit had "not, like most sacred stones, fallen from the sky. The story was that at the very beginning she had pushed her way up out of the earth." This reminded me a lot of A Wizard of Earthsea, with "the precious stone called Terrenon". Serret takes Ged down to the deepest dungeon and shows him "a heavy unshapen paving-stone: yet he felt the power of it as if it spoke to him aloud. And his breath caught in his throat, and a sickness came over him for a moment. This was the foundingstone of the tower. This was the central place, and it was cold, bitter cold; nothing could ever warm the little room. This was a very ancient thing: an old and terrible spirit was prisoned in that block of stone." I can't find my copy of Tombs of Atuan, but I also remember there being similar notes between the worship of Ungit (e.g. we learn in chapter 9 about the annual ceremony where the priest of Ungit fights his way out of the temple so that the new year is born) and the Kargish ceremony described there. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at Earthsea in Mythgard Academy with Tombs and Farthest Shore, maybe also Tehanu, though I don't remember being as moved by that book).
This one isn't so specific, but at many places the voice of Psyche has reminded me of the Green Lady of Perelandra - they both have that sense of total innocence but also great wisdom beyond their years. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at the Space Trilogy in Mythgard Academy - Perelandra is certainly one of my favorites of Lewis' works).
At the end of chapter 9 and the start of 10 Orual meets Psyche across the stream. In class Corey talked about the echoes of the Pearl, where a father meets his deceased daughter in a vision standing on the other side of a stream (BTW, I hope that someday we cover Tolkien's translation of Gawain, the Pearl, and Sir Orfeo in Mythgard Academy). I haven't read Pearl (though it's sitting over there on my shelf), but I was thinking of another work that had a huge influence on Lewis, Dante's Purgatoro. Spoiler alert, but when Dante gets to the top of Mount Purgatory, he meets a woman across a stream. "I halted, and I set my eyes upon / the farther bank, to look at the abundant / variety of newly—flowered boughs; / and there, just like a thing that, in appearing / most suddenly, repels all other thoughts, / so great is the astonishment it brings, / I saw a solitary woman moving" They speak across the stream, and later she helps him cross the stream to meet his beloved. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at Dante with Puragorio and Paradisio.)
I also was highly reminded of Jill meeting Aslan at the start of the Silver Chair. This is again in a paradisal setting by a stream, though in this case the beloved is on the same side of the stream (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our Lewis journeys with the Narnia books in Mythgard Academy.)
We've already talked about this in class, but when Orual can't see (or refuses to see) the palace of the God of the Mountain in front of her it is very much like the dwarfs in the Last Battle who refuse to see the paradise around them. (See previous note about hoping we cover Narnia in Mythgard Academy.)
The invisible servants in the palace of the God of the Mountain reminded me a bit of the invisible Dufflepuds in Dawn Treader, though the Dufflepuds are so much more fun. (See previous note about seeing previous note about reading the Narnia series in Mythgard Academy)
When Orual can't accept that there is a real palace, Psyche must be either lying or crazy. This echoes the discussion of Peter and Susan with the Professor in the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe about Lucy's story of entering a magical world. The professor tells them "There are only three possibilities. Either your sister is telling lies, or she is mad, or she is telling the truth. You know she doesn't tell likes and it is obvious that she is not mad. For the moment then, and unless any further evidence turns up, we must assume that she is telling the truth." This is also a fictional setting of the "lord, liar, lunatic trilemma" that Lewis sets out with regard to Jesus in Mere Christianity. (Do I need to even say it? See the previous note about seeing the previous note about seeing the previous note about the Chronicles of Narnia and Mythgard Academy.)
Anyway, that's what I have for now. Anyone else have additional examples of echoes?
Bruce / Bricktales
PS - I think I just laid out 15 books for future Mythgard Academy classes. If I live long enough to get to "Well, I'm back" in Exploring maybe I'll also be there to get through all of these books in Academy. If not, I'll meet you all under Niggle's Tree in the great beyond for further discussions. Oops, I just added another book to the list, the Tolkien Reader, though I suppose we'd have to do Tales from the Perilous Realm (but maybe add Homecoming just because it's so different from the rest).
As we've been reading through Faces together, I've seen a lot of echoes of other works, either earlier works that may or may not have influenced Lewis, later works that may or may not have been influenced by Lewis, or other Lewis works that (unsurprisingly) use similar phrases, images, or ideas. I figured I'd start a thread of these and invite others to add to it. I don't have any huge conclusions other than observations, but I'm sure Corey would note that several of these could be the starting point for a compare/contrast moot paper.
Okay, and in no particular order:
Very early in the book in chapter 1 we are introduced to Ungit: "In the furthest recess of her house where she sits it is so dark that you cannot see her well, but in summer enough light may come down from the smoke-holes in the roof to show her a little. She is a black stone without head or hands or face, and a very strong goddess." Much later in section 2 chapter 2 we will learn that Ungit had "not, like most sacred stones, fallen from the sky. The story was that at the very beginning she had pushed her way up out of the earth." This reminded me a lot of A Wizard of Earthsea, with "the precious stone called Terrenon". Serret takes Ged down to the deepest dungeon and shows him "a heavy unshapen paving-stone: yet he felt the power of it as if it spoke to him aloud. And his breath caught in his throat, and a sickness came over him for a moment. This was the foundingstone of the tower. This was the central place, and it was cold, bitter cold; nothing could ever warm the little room. This was a very ancient thing: an old and terrible spirit was prisoned in that block of stone." I can't find my copy of Tombs of Atuan, but I also remember there being similar notes between the worship of Ungit (e.g. we learn in chapter 9 about the annual ceremony where the priest of Ungit fights his way out of the temple so that the new year is born) and the Kargish ceremony described there. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at Earthsea in Mythgard Academy with Tombs and Farthest Shore, maybe also Tehanu, though I don't remember being as moved by that book).
This one isn't so specific, but at many places the voice of Psyche has reminded me of the Green Lady of Perelandra - they both have that sense of total innocence but also great wisdom beyond their years. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at the Space Trilogy in Mythgard Academy - Perelandra is certainly one of my favorites of Lewis' works).
At the end of chapter 9 and the start of 10 Orual meets Psyche across the stream. In class Corey talked about the echoes of the Pearl, where a father meets his deceased daughter in a vision standing on the other side of a stream (BTW, I hope that someday we cover Tolkien's translation of Gawain, the Pearl, and Sir Orfeo in Mythgard Academy). I haven't read Pearl (though it's sitting over there on my shelf), but I was thinking of another work that had a huge influence on Lewis, Dante's Purgatoro. Spoiler alert, but when Dante gets to the top of Mount Purgatory, he meets a woman across a stream. "I halted, and I set my eyes upon / the farther bank, to look at the abundant / variety of newly—flowered boughs; / and there, just like a thing that, in appearing / most suddenly, repels all other thoughts, / so great is the astonishment it brings, / I saw a solitary woman moving" They speak across the stream, and later she helps him cross the stream to meet his beloved. (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our look at Dante with Puragorio and Paradisio.)
I also was highly reminded of Jill meeting Aslan at the start of the Silver Chair. This is again in a paradisal setting by a stream, though in this case the beloved is on the same side of the stream (BTW, I hope that someday we continue our Lewis journeys with the Narnia books in Mythgard Academy.)
We've already talked about this in class, but when Orual can't see (or refuses to see) the palace of the God of the Mountain in front of her it is very much like the dwarfs in the Last Battle who refuse to see the paradise around them. (See previous note about hoping we cover Narnia in Mythgard Academy.)
The invisible servants in the palace of the God of the Mountain reminded me a bit of the invisible Dufflepuds in Dawn Treader, though the Dufflepuds are so much more fun. (See previous note about seeing previous note about reading the Narnia series in Mythgard Academy)
When Orual can't accept that there is a real palace, Psyche must be either lying or crazy. This echoes the discussion of Peter and Susan with the Professor in the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe about Lucy's story of entering a magical world. The professor tells them "There are only three possibilities. Either your sister is telling lies, or she is mad, or she is telling the truth. You know she doesn't tell likes and it is obvious that she is not mad. For the moment then, and unless any further evidence turns up, we must assume that she is telling the truth." This is also a fictional setting of the "lord, liar, lunatic trilemma" that Lewis sets out with regard to Jesus in Mere Christianity. (Do I need to even say it? See the previous note about seeing the previous note about seeing the previous note about the Chronicles of Narnia and Mythgard Academy.)
Anyway, that's what I have for now. Anyone else have additional examples of echoes?
Bruce / Bricktales
PS - I think I just laid out 15 books for future Mythgard Academy classes. If I live long enough to get to "Well, I'm back" in Exploring maybe I'll also be there to get through all of these books in Academy. If not, I'll meet you all under Niggle's Tree in the great beyond for further discussions. Oops, I just added another book to the list, the Tolkien Reader, though I suppose we'd have to do Tales from the Perilous Realm (but maybe add Homecoming just because it's so different from the rest).
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