Mythgard Forums

Historians anachronistically using epithets acquired decades or centuries later?

Some event was invented in Season 2 to earn the name... I dunno what. Maybe you already knew that though.

Yeah I was just listening to a reading and the reader stressed "Valiant" and I'm like, in what way, exactly. Awesome, clever, strong, swift, charming, funny, all fine. But at the point where Feanor torches the boats, Fingon has only had one real chance to be valiant.

The historians also call Mablung "the heavy handed." But that was apparently an epithet he got after the Quest of the Silmaril. The histories never use his original name, whatever it was.

The published Silmarillion (pg 87) states that Fingon, leading the vanguard, turned the tide in favor of the Noldor.

If that's where he got the epithet it's... an unfortunate reason to be called Valiant. Or at least, unfortunate to Fingon's tastes.

Maybe it’s ironic.

It highlights the turn in Maedhros. Up until the next moment, when Feanor burns the ships rather than returning for the rest of the Host, Maedhros still has his blinders on - he's gung-ho that they're on the right path.

"Surely Dad will be reasonable about this. He's been reasonable about everything else so far."

*facepalm*

It's more than that even. "We've been on the side of justice and righteousness this whole time. Wait, we're burning the ships? That's not just or right. Wait, what about that whole Teleri thing? How just and right was that? Oh no, are WE the bad guys here?" He doesn't go as far as "Yes, we are the bad guys" but it's the first time he's turned a thought in that direction.

At what point do you think he finally feels any regret or remorse over all the people he murdered at Alqualonde? Do you think he ever apologized to Earwen's family? Should we ever show him apologizing for it? There's no mention of it in the books.

It's one of those issues that's easy in a bird's eye view - the momentum has been carrying him forward, and it is at this very moment that he has his first regrets. In narrative form - he spends days? weeks? on board a ship. At some point he'd have to physically clean the blood off himself, and his gear. Surely he has at least some time for reflection, for the momentum to wane.

Maedhros has plenty of time to think over his regrets as he hangs on Thangorodrim. I have to imagine he took the opportunity for a little introspection at that point....
As for Fingon, he doesn't seem to really regret the past so much as to move towards the future hopefully. Doesn't mean he can't apologize, but he's more of a 'let me make this right for you' kind of guy. ...

I think Maedhros will definitely apologize to Finrod at some point. They stay friends, and Finrod goes hunting with him and Maglor in early Season 5.

Presumably, there was some daring feat Fingon pulled off in Valinor (prior to the Kinslaying) to earn him the epithet. But, it is possible it was from the Kinslaying or even later (despite being recorded in Maedhros' dialogue at Losgar).

In SilmFilm, Fingon earned the epithet as a kid. Celegorm got stuck in a dry well trying to rescue an animal. Fingon climbed down to rescue him, and when Maedhros came back from getting the adults, he called him 'Fingon the Valiant'. Of course, earlier that day, he'd said the same thing derisively, because Fingon wouldn't go along with whatever shenanigans the Fëanoreans were up to.

I remembered the gist of that from our story. It just kind of jumped out at me in the text, coming seemingly out of nowhere on the shore.

Yes, Maedhros clearly knows Fingon better than the reader does, at that point in the story!

Kinda like how Merry knows that Lotho will be at the bottom of any ill doings in the Shire, though this is the first the reader is hearing about it.

An additional question is whether Maedhros ever sent an apology to Thingol. Given his inability/unwillingness to ask nicely for a Silmaril after his brothers abducted Luthien for forced marriage, it does seem less likely than apologizing to Finrod.