I always thought of Rivendell as narrow valley with steep sides, with the last homely house somewhere deep in that valley. Since it's on the west side of the misty mountains, I envisioned it as descending from the east to the west. Thus, I wonder how Frodo is able to see a star in the south on the horizon. I live in the mountains, and find that it very difficult to see things near the horizon from the bottom of a valley. Perhaps the valley descended from the north to the south, and it was possible to see the horizon out of the southern mouth of the valley. But perhaps not.
A star on the horizon in the south
- Thread starter TThurston
- Start date
Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Hi TThurston,
I think that you are right that the valley of Rivendell runs mostly from east to west. The map would seem to suggest this, and also the text.
However, the mountains are to the east of Rivendell. Sam looked, "with wonder in his eyes at the great heights in the East. The snow was white upon their peaks."
The red star is visible, "above the trees on the brink of the valley," to the south of Rivendell.
We don't know how deep the valley is (nor how wide) but the red star is obviously high enough in the southern sky that it can be seen above the valley brink. So, if the valley is deep and narrow, the star must be quite high in the sky. If the valley is shallower and wider, then the star could be lower in the sky and still be seen.
The distance from the Misty Mountains to Rivendell seems on the map to be about the same distance as between Hobbiton and the Brandywine Bridge. "It was a good forty miles from the Bridge to Bag End," (Scouring of the Shire).
If we equate the Misty Mountains to the Rocky Mountains, and look at River Valleys 40 miles west of the crest, we see that many of those valleys become wider and shallower the further from the mountains they get, and are often quite wide and shallow after 40 miles. So, the Bruinen might have cut a deeper and narrower valley further upstream, but, at Rivendell, 40 miles from the crest, the valley should be wider and shallower. From the descriptions in the text, the Bruinen seems to still be quite swift flowing at Rivendell, and the valley does not seem as wide and shallow as some of the river valleys on the west side of the Rocky Mountains. "They saw a valley far below. They could hear the voice of hurrying water in a rocky bed at the bottom;... and there was a light on the valley side across the water." (The Hobbit) The valley was shallow enough that they could hear the river from the brink. We also don't know how high up the north valley side Rivendell was situated. However, I suspect ithe valley is wide and shallow enough that the red star does not have to be extremely high in the south to be seen over the valley brink.
I think that you are right that the valley of Rivendell runs mostly from east to west. The map would seem to suggest this, and also the text.
However, the mountains are to the east of Rivendell. Sam looked, "with wonder in his eyes at the great heights in the East. The snow was white upon their peaks."
The red star is visible, "above the trees on the brink of the valley," to the south of Rivendell.
We don't know how deep the valley is (nor how wide) but the red star is obviously high enough in the southern sky that it can be seen above the valley brink. So, if the valley is deep and narrow, the star must be quite high in the sky. If the valley is shallower and wider, then the star could be lower in the sky and still be seen.
The distance from the Misty Mountains to Rivendell seems on the map to be about the same distance as between Hobbiton and the Brandywine Bridge. "It was a good forty miles from the Bridge to Bag End," (Scouring of the Shire).
If we equate the Misty Mountains to the Rocky Mountains, and look at River Valleys 40 miles west of the crest, we see that many of those valleys become wider and shallower the further from the mountains they get, and are often quite wide and shallow after 40 miles. So, the Bruinen might have cut a deeper and narrower valley further upstream, but, at Rivendell, 40 miles from the crest, the valley should be wider and shallower. From the descriptions in the text, the Bruinen seems to still be quite swift flowing at Rivendell, and the valley does not seem as wide and shallow as some of the river valleys on the west side of the Rocky Mountains. "They saw a valley far below. They could hear the voice of hurrying water in a rocky bed at the bottom;... and there was a light on the valley side across the water." (The Hobbit) The valley was shallow enough that they could hear the river from the brink. We also don't know how high up the north valley side Rivendell was situated. However, I suspect ithe valley is wide and shallow enough that the red star does not have to be extremely high in the south to be seen over the valley brink.
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