Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Does the ‘Rivendell’ poem associate its hero with Bilbo?
Proto-Earendil is whisked into Faerie while he is asleep. Bilbo is whisked off into Faerie (or at least into adventure – leading to Faerie) pretty much inadvertently as well.
“To the end of his days Bilbo could never remember how he found himself outside, without a hat, a walking stick, or any money, or anything that he usually took when he went out.”
Proto-Earendil goes to Elvenhome, and thence to become a star. Bilbo goes to ‘Elvenhome in Exile’ (Rivendell), and “Whither then, we cannot say”. Or, at least, we cannot say as first time readers (if Bilbo had recited this poem, rather than the one he did when we got to the Hall of Fire). We might guess, however, that as Proto-Earendil had reflected some of Bilbo’s story so far, his story might also foreshadow some of Bilbo’s future story. (Indeed, we would find out later in our reading of TLOTR, that some of it does, as Bilbo does go to Elvenhome, and “whither then we cannot say”).
Now, Tolkien did not use this version in the finished work. Perhaps for several reasons?:
Now, in the “Earendil was a Mariner” poem, Earendil is no longer whisked away into Faerie. He has a quest, an errand. He is seeking the shining shore and the light.
The poem is much less obviously associated with Frodo than the previous version was with Bilbo. I think, though, that the association is still there, and that Tolkien intends for this poem, at this time, to be deliberately shaped by Bilbo to compare Earendil to Frodo, and for Frodo to understand that comparison on some level.
Of course, the expectation might be that any poem recited by Bilbo on the occasion of a feast in honor of Frodo, would relate to Frodo somehow.
Earendil goes on a quest (to find Elvenhome, deliver tidings of danger and woe, seek help for Middle Earth - though, as first time readers, we don’t know all this). Frodo goes on a quest, to deliver the Ring to Elvenhome-in-Exile, deliver tidings of danger, and seek help and advice for Middle Earth.
The quest turns out to be difficult, perhaps impossible. Earendil is stopped by the winds of wrath. Frodo is almost stopped by the Black Riders. Earendil can continue thanks to help from Elwing (Who, we may remember, from Strider on Weathertop, is the grand daughter of Beren and Luthien, Earendil’s wife, and some sort of ancestor of Elrond (I don’t think we know, as first time readers, that Earendil and Elwing are Elrond’s parents). Elwing helps Earendil and his quest by giving him the Silmaril (which we know a few things about, thanks also to Strider on Weathertop).
Frodo could continue thanks to help from Strider, and Glorfindel, and Asfaloth, and Merry, Pippin and Sam, and the gifts of ‘Athelas’ from Strider, and the ‘draugth’ from Glorfindel.
If we, or (perhaps more importantly) Frodo, associate Frodo with Earendil, both he and we might now expect him to continue the quest beyond Rivendell, and to wonder how much more of Frodo’s future might be foreshadowed by the Earendil poem?
Do we think that the ‘Rivendell’ poem pretty clearly associates Proto-Earendil with Bilbo?
Do we think that the ‘Earendil’ poem associates Earendil with Frodo?
If we do, why is Bilbo reciting this poem, associated to Frodo?
Why is Tolkien inserting this poem into the work of art in this place?
Proto-Earendil is whisked into Faerie while he is asleep. Bilbo is whisked off into Faerie (or at least into adventure – leading to Faerie) pretty much inadvertently as well.
“To the end of his days Bilbo could never remember how he found himself outside, without a hat, a walking stick, or any money, or anything that he usually took when he went out.”
- Both are plunged into a new and more magical world through no volition of their own.
- Both are armed with elvish weapons.
- Both go on to heroic deeds. Indeed, the same heroic deed, killing giant spiders.
Proto-Earendil goes to Elvenhome, and thence to become a star. Bilbo goes to ‘Elvenhome in Exile’ (Rivendell), and “Whither then, we cannot say”. Or, at least, we cannot say as first time readers (if Bilbo had recited this poem, rather than the one he did when we got to the Hall of Fire). We might guess, however, that as Proto-Earendil had reflected some of Bilbo’s story so far, his story might also foreshadow some of Bilbo’s future story. (Indeed, we would find out later in our reading of TLOTR, that some of it does, as Bilbo does go to Elvenhome, and “whither then we cannot say”).
Now, Tolkien did not use this version in the finished work. Perhaps for several reasons?:
- It would be even cheekier of Bilbo to recite a poem about Elrond’s dad, in Elrond’s house, if Elrond’s dad was associated so clearly with Bilbo himself. (Not that we, the first time reader, know that Earendil is Elrond’s dad, but Tolkien presumably knew.)
- Tolkien wanted the poem to tell more about Earendil, and link more clearly to his ‘Silmarillion’ stuff (and, he might have been revising his Simarillionish views on the tale of Earendil).
- Tolkien wanted to shift the association of the poem from Bilbo to Frodo. Frodo, after all, is the protagonist of TLOTR, no longer Bilbo.
Now, in the “Earendil was a Mariner” poem, Earendil is no longer whisked away into Faerie. He has a quest, an errand. He is seeking the shining shore and the light.
The poem is much less obviously associated with Frodo than the previous version was with Bilbo. I think, though, that the association is still there, and that Tolkien intends for this poem, at this time, to be deliberately shaped by Bilbo to compare Earendil to Frodo, and for Frodo to understand that comparison on some level.
Of course, the expectation might be that any poem recited by Bilbo on the occasion of a feast in honor of Frodo, would relate to Frodo somehow.
Earendil goes on a quest (to find Elvenhome, deliver tidings of danger and woe, seek help for Middle Earth - though, as first time readers, we don’t know all this). Frodo goes on a quest, to deliver the Ring to Elvenhome-in-Exile, deliver tidings of danger, and seek help and advice for Middle Earth.
The quest turns out to be difficult, perhaps impossible. Earendil is stopped by the winds of wrath. Frodo is almost stopped by the Black Riders. Earendil can continue thanks to help from Elwing (Who, we may remember, from Strider on Weathertop, is the grand daughter of Beren and Luthien, Earendil’s wife, and some sort of ancestor of Elrond (I don’t think we know, as first time readers, that Earendil and Elwing are Elrond’s parents). Elwing helps Earendil and his quest by giving him the Silmaril (which we know a few things about, thanks also to Strider on Weathertop).
Frodo could continue thanks to help from Strider, and Glorfindel, and Asfaloth, and Merry, Pippin and Sam, and the gifts of ‘Athelas’ from Strider, and the ‘draugth’ from Glorfindel.
If we, or (perhaps more importantly) Frodo, associate Frodo with Earendil, both he and we might now expect him to continue the quest beyond Rivendell, and to wonder how much more of Frodo’s future might be foreshadowed by the Earendil poem?
Do we think that the ‘Rivendell’ poem pretty clearly associates Proto-Earendil with Bilbo?
Do we think that the ‘Earendil’ poem associates Earendil with Frodo?
If we do, why is Bilbo reciting this poem, associated to Frodo?
Why is Tolkien inserting this poem into the work of art in this place?