Flammifer
Well-Known Member
From Holly Ordway’s book, ‘Tolkien’s Modern Reading’, we know that JRRT “Did a good deal of reading of detective stories’, (quote from Clyde Kilby).
Among those we know he read were Agatha Christie’s books (he praised her as an author). We are sure that he read ‘At Bertram’s Hotel’, by her, and assume he read many others. We know he read ‘The Bloody Wood’, by Michael Innes, and especially enjoyed the etymological puzzle hidden in it. We know that he read every one of the ‘Lord Peter Whimsey’ mysteries by Dorothy Sayers, even though he liked the early ones much more than the later ones. Sayers’ mysteries evolved from classic crime puzzles in the early books to much more of psychological novels in the later ones.
JRRT disliked Chesterton’s ‘Father Brown’ detective stories. Perhaps because they depended more on spiritual and moral insight to come to a solution, rather than clever plotting and hidden clues?
The classical ‘Who done it’ is a mystery or detective story in which the author provides enough clues for the reader to deduce solutions before they are revealed at the climax. The classical ‘Who done it’ is constructed as a ‘double narrative’. Two stories are woven together. The story of the event (crime usually) as it unfolded in real time, and the story of the ‘detective’ who is trying to reconstruct the event after the fact by interviewing stakeholders and gathering clues. Ideally, the construction should allow the clever close reader to deduce the likely ‘solution’ to the event before it is revealed at the climax. In any event, after the climax it should be possible for the reader to see how one could have deduced the solution if clever enough and reading closely enough.
Given that JRRT liked to read ‘Who done its’, did he employ these techniques in TLOTR?
I think he did. Particularly in ‘The Council of Elrond’, I think that Boromir, as the detective, gets enough clues to decipher his Divine Dream, even though the ‘climax’ is never presented (at least not during the Council). Boromir wants his Divine Dream answered (that is the mystery). Surprisingly, he seems to be the only one at the Council focused on this mystery. Boromir, (and the clever and close reading first-time-reader) get enough clues to solve the last puzzle in the Dream. How will ‘the counsels taken be stronger than Morgul-spells’? We learn enough during the Council to realize that the Morgul-wraiths are the bearers of the Nine Rings for Mortal Men; that those Rings are what keeps them ‘alive’ in Middle-earth; and when Elrond believes that if the One Ring is destroyed, the Three will fail, it is easy to conclude that if the Three will fail, the Nine will fail, and the Nazgul will disappear from Middle-earth; thus the Counsel taken, to destroy the One Ring, will be ‘stronger than Morgul spells’.
Now, this is never explicitly stated by anyone at the Council, though it can be deduced (and, I think was, by Boromir, or else he would have said something).
That being so, is it also possible that JRRT buried enough clues, using the same ‘Who done it’ methodology of the dual narrative (events unfolding in real time, while the ‘detective’ needs to work backwards through the evidence to gain illumination) to deduce that destroying the One Ring will also destroy Sauron and win the War?
I don’t think so. I cannot find such clues.
With the benefit of hindsight, knowing that destroying the Ring does destroy Sauron and win the War, I think one can interpret some comments as possible ‘foreshadowings’ of that outcome. However, I do not find enough clues to allow deduction in the classic pattern of the ‘Who done it’ genre.
What do you think? Do you think that JRRT was borrowing from his love of ‘detective stories’ to set up deductive clue sequences in TLOTR in ‘Who done it’ genre fashion? Can you think of other examples?
Among those we know he read were Agatha Christie’s books (he praised her as an author). We are sure that he read ‘At Bertram’s Hotel’, by her, and assume he read many others. We know he read ‘The Bloody Wood’, by Michael Innes, and especially enjoyed the etymological puzzle hidden in it. We know that he read every one of the ‘Lord Peter Whimsey’ mysteries by Dorothy Sayers, even though he liked the early ones much more than the later ones. Sayers’ mysteries evolved from classic crime puzzles in the early books to much more of psychological novels in the later ones.
JRRT disliked Chesterton’s ‘Father Brown’ detective stories. Perhaps because they depended more on spiritual and moral insight to come to a solution, rather than clever plotting and hidden clues?
The classical ‘Who done it’ is a mystery or detective story in which the author provides enough clues for the reader to deduce solutions before they are revealed at the climax. The classical ‘Who done it’ is constructed as a ‘double narrative’. Two stories are woven together. The story of the event (crime usually) as it unfolded in real time, and the story of the ‘detective’ who is trying to reconstruct the event after the fact by interviewing stakeholders and gathering clues. Ideally, the construction should allow the clever close reader to deduce the likely ‘solution’ to the event before it is revealed at the climax. In any event, after the climax it should be possible for the reader to see how one could have deduced the solution if clever enough and reading closely enough.
Given that JRRT liked to read ‘Who done its’, did he employ these techniques in TLOTR?
I think he did. Particularly in ‘The Council of Elrond’, I think that Boromir, as the detective, gets enough clues to decipher his Divine Dream, even though the ‘climax’ is never presented (at least not during the Council). Boromir wants his Divine Dream answered (that is the mystery). Surprisingly, he seems to be the only one at the Council focused on this mystery. Boromir, (and the clever and close reading first-time-reader) get enough clues to solve the last puzzle in the Dream. How will ‘the counsels taken be stronger than Morgul-spells’? We learn enough during the Council to realize that the Morgul-wraiths are the bearers of the Nine Rings for Mortal Men; that those Rings are what keeps them ‘alive’ in Middle-earth; and when Elrond believes that if the One Ring is destroyed, the Three will fail, it is easy to conclude that if the Three will fail, the Nine will fail, and the Nazgul will disappear from Middle-earth; thus the Counsel taken, to destroy the One Ring, will be ‘stronger than Morgul spells’.
Now, this is never explicitly stated by anyone at the Council, though it can be deduced (and, I think was, by Boromir, or else he would have said something).
That being so, is it also possible that JRRT buried enough clues, using the same ‘Who done it’ methodology of the dual narrative (events unfolding in real time, while the ‘detective’ needs to work backwards through the evidence to gain illumination) to deduce that destroying the One Ring will also destroy Sauron and win the War?
I don’t think so. I cannot find such clues.
With the benefit of hindsight, knowing that destroying the Ring does destroy Sauron and win the War, I think one can interpret some comments as possible ‘foreshadowings’ of that outcome. However, I do not find enough clues to allow deduction in the classic pattern of the ‘Who done it’ genre.
What do you think? Do you think that JRRT was borrowing from his love of ‘detective stories’ to set up deductive clue sequences in TLOTR in ‘Who done it’ genre fashion? Can you think of other examples?