Episode 146 Summary

[Tony Meade]

SESSION 146

Comment on Gandalf’s reluctance to contradict Saruman:

• A strong analogy for this situation can be found in modern academia, in which scholars are loath to contradict their respected peers before putting together a watertight case.
• Gandalf might be waiting to bring this evidence, once he has gathered, to Saruman for review, as he doesn’t want to contradict the leader of the Council without proof or undermine him.
• Note: We can’t project backwards Gandalf’s distrust following his betrayal back onto the time before he was betrayed, nor can we project elements of Unfinished Tales onto this story.
• It seems more likely to Gandalf prior to this that Saruman has simply made an error and is overconfident and prideful in that error, rather than that he is openly betraying them.
• Gandalf might have sympathy if Saruman were merely closedminded, rather than malicious.
• Note: Was Tolkien deliberately injecting these parallels from his own academic experiences? There’s no evidence either way, but these activities are endemic to any field of research.
• However, while Gandalf did not know that Saruman was a traitor during the events he is narrating, he does know that now, and it colors his narration and attitude toward those events.
• Gandalf may not have realized that he was being “lulled” at the time, but he does see it that way now. He uses that word retrospectively, and also with bitterness and regret.
• The difference in the interests concerning the Rings shows a difference in the characters of Gandalf and Saruman. Saruman is interested as a maker, Gandalf only in defeating Sauron.
• There’s also a sense that Saruman is interested in studying their enemies, while Gandalf makes a study of their allies. Saruman’s studies are not themselves wicked, only perilous to pursue.
• The seeds of Saruman’s fall were there from the beginning, but that is also true of all the great and the Wise, though he falls, and the others don’t. This was still his choice, and not inevitable.

Great lore must have a source:

• Gandalf seems partially motivated to make this trip to Minas Tirith now because of its proximity.
• This is Gandalf’s secondary option after failing to find Gollum, which he felt was a better source as a primary witness. His sees a choice to go to try and find written testimony as second best.
• Saruman had only said “maybe” when referring to being able to read any marks on the One Ring, though he was unequivocal about those marks being there and made by the Maker.
• Gandalf’s looking for a primary source is more effective research than listening to a secondhand interpretation, like Saruman’s, knowing he had to have seen those sources to interpret them.
• Gandalf also understands that he can only trace the Ring as far back as Gollum, and he doesn’t know how many hands it had passed through in the time between him and Isildur.
• Who does Gandalf mean by “members of my order”, other than Saruman? He means himself, too, but he could also be referring to Radagast and the other two, later the Blue Wizards.
• Note: At this point in the writing, the number and nature of the Istari had not been settled by Tolkien, though it has been shrinking since the writing of The Hobbit. The number being five is not settled until when Saruman references it during the confrontation at Isengard.

Less welcome then than of old:

• Gandalf may mean that his welcome from Denethor in former times was better than it is now, but he also may be referring to Denethor’s predecessors who were more welcoming.
• There’s no evidence so far that Gandalf has been to Minas Tirith in Denethor’s time, so it can be inferred that Gandalf is referring to Denethor’s predecessors and not Denethor himself.
• Boromir has also not intimated that knows or has met Gandalf in Minas Tirith, so by not mentioning one, Gandalf cannot be referring to a prior meeting with Denethor directly.
• The use of the word “hoarded” carries weight being also used with regard to dragons, which means that Gandalf ma be making a very subtle reference to the way Denethor treats his books.
• Boromir had boasted earlier of his father’s lore, so Gandalf is being diplomatic in his rebuke.
• Why does Gandalf quote Denethor directly? In order to tell the story, the direct quote is unnecessary, but he uses the quote to show Denethor’s behavior without saying it himself.
• Gandalf is leaving the others, including Boromir, to draw their own conclusions about Denethor.
• Gandalf does not seem to have been open with Denethor about the knowledge he seeks, but only that he wishes to look in the archives for records from the time of the founding of the City.
• Denethor seems to be on guard against any interference of Gandalf might make in the war effort, though its also possible that he is resentful of Gandalf’s lack of help, on the other hand.
• Note: It’s also possible that he knows that Gandalf is a friend of Aragorn, or Thorongil, by now.
• Denethor’s use of the word “dark” seems to refer to evil and horror, though he may also be talking about the lack of clarity. Denethor doesn’t understand the future like be does the past.

Master of the lore of the city:

• If Denethor is referring to his concern about the future, he is rebuking Gandalf for looking up the past, but if he’s talking about it being unclear, this seems to be more arrogant regarding his lore.
• By comparing his lore to that of Saruman’s, he points more towards his arrogance than anxiety.
• Denethor might also think that Gandalf’s priorities are out of order, in light of current events.
• While Denethor gives credit to Saruman that he doesn’t extend to Gandalf, he also uses that to needle Gandalf as being inferior to Saruman, revealing Denethor’s perspective on the Wizards.
• He may also be accusing Gandalf of arrogance; in that he will find something Saruman missed.
• Note: Denethor is probably projecting his pride, insecurities, and anxieties onto the Wizards.
• Denethor may also be baiting Gandalf into revealing his full purpose by implying that as the master of the lore of his City, Gandalf should be able to ask Denethor what he wants to know.
• He may have good reason to be suspicious since Gandalf has been obviously evasive, and Denethor may infer that it may be important for him to know.
• It’s important that the records that the documents Gandalf is asking to see are the oldest and rarest that they have in the archives, so he should provide a viable reason to do so.
• Denethor’s words about Saruman prove to the Council that Gandalf was on the right path.
• Gandalf is also preparing them for his reveal of Saruman’s treason, by implying that even their known allies are not always helpful or trustworthy, making a parallel between the two.
• He cannot be any more explicit in warning them about Denethor’s motives being questionable without offending Boromir, but this will also bear on their decisions about the Ring.

END OF SESSION