Episodes 203 & 204 - why Gimli and Legolas

[Totch]

Hi Corey,

First, thank you for this fantastic work!

I started listening back in August 2023 and have been working my way through your exploration of the Lord of the Rings, and am now on episode 205, where Merry and Pippin will soon be chosen for the remaining two slots in the Company of the Ring.

In episode 203 & 204, you discussed why the various members of the company were chosen, and concluded that the main reason for Gimli and Legolas to be chosen was the, by chance, the path that the company would take partially coincided with their way home.

While this is certainly true, I think that there are more good reasons for them to be chosen, or more reasons that Providence brought them here to be chosen.

Legolas and Gimli are both tied to the recent history of the Ring:
- both their peoples and fathers were impacted, and arguably benefitted, from Bilbo finding and using the Ring. It could therefore seem fitting for them to contribute to this next quest
- it creates a nice parallel with Bilbo’s quest. Glóin was one of Bilbo’s companions, and Thranduil ended up being in Bilbo’s debt. Now, as Bilbo’s heir and (adoptive) son goes on this quest to destroy the Ring, Glóin’s son and heir, and Thranduil’s son and heir, will both accompany Frodo.
- my knowledge may be off here, but I also think that choosing Legolas, a Silvan elf, rather than one of the Noldor, is quite appropriate. As we saw in the Council, mostly through Galdor, is that the Noldor plan to go West. While this may ultimately be true for all Elves, I wonder if the Silvan elves, not having been to Valinor/not having seen the Light of the Trees, aren’t much more deeply tied to Middle-Earth. While the Noldor might see the fight against Sauron as necessary for the Peoples who will live in ME during the next age, it is not their own future. Would the Silvan elves not remain longer in ME than any other elves?

Thanks for your time,

Totch

 

[Luke of X (Fmr. Twitter)]

I am one episode behind here in my re-listening, but this gives me a good opportunity to ask a questions I was pondering once Elrond named Gimli as a member of the Company.

Corey specifically mentions this passage in his Hobbit book: "Balin was overjoyed to see the hobbit again, and as delighted as he was surprised. He picked Bilbo up and carried him out into the open air. It was midnight and clouds had covered the stars, but Bilbo lay with his eyes shut, gasping and taking pleasure in the feel of the fresh air again, and hardly noticing the excitement of the dwarves, or how they praised him and patted him on the back and put themselves and all their families for generations to come at his service." The Hobbit, Ch. 12 "Inside Information"

Is Gimli here fulfilling his father's pledge? In the episodes prior Corey talked about how conversations must have happened off stage since freely willing to go seems to be key.

Now, someone had to go back to the Lonely Mountain, as Dain only had until the end of the year to give a reply to the Messenger of Mordor. Does the following happen? Gloin and Gimli approach Elrond after the council, and Gloin puts himself at Frodo's service, as he is Bilbo's heir, but Gimli intervenes to say that he will take his father's place? Then the rest of the Dwarves return to Erebor? It may explain Gimli's words before the Company departs, as he here believes he is being faithful to his dad's promise of service?