Having just finished Episode 33, during my commute this morning, I wanted to put down some thoughts whilst they are still fresh.
Listener Matt said he felt something about good and evil is lost in translation when talking about the trees' point-of-view. I agree. And during the whole discussion up until this point of the episode (approx 1h33m) I had been feeling it too. For my own response, I was reminded of Sam's first view of battle of Men against Men, which he did not like much.
It's a common adage that history is written by the victors. And of course,'right' and 'wrong' are largely dependent on perspective. The American Revolutionary War, for example, is understandably not as big a deal in their history books. They've got over 2,000 years of history to be getting on with.
David Mitchell and Robert Webb have comedy sketch wherein they're playing Nazis, and which touches beautifully on the subject of perspective. Sitting around camp one evening, Mitchell turns to Webb and asks the poignant (albeit funny) question, Are we the baddies?
It's unlikely that many people fight in a war actively believing themselves to be on the wrong side of history. There does seem to be some level of objectivity involved.
Bringing things down in scale from war to four hobbits in a forest occupied by potentially malevolent trees: if anyone is well-positioned to give an objective opinion on Old Man Willow it is Tom Bombadil. Yet
Corey was right, I think, to point out that Tom was perhaps discouraging such black-and-white labelling.
Tom can certainly see the hobbits' perspective of fear and distrust. Yet he clearly sees the trees' perspective and their own distrust of things walking on two legs.
We do not think ourselves evil if we clear a forest for farmland. Yet what would the forest think?
We don't think ourselves wicked if we put down slug pellets to protect our cabbages. But what would slugs think?
Can we really be surprised that a sentient forest, who knows full well that things which walk on two legs have been responsible again and again for cutting down and burning trees? Are they not merely putting down slug pellets by way of trying do away with the hobbits? Is it really evil?
A note on dominion: Tom is Master. And there we can perhaps draw a comparison to Old Man Willow. Old Man Willow's power has
Yet Tom is Master. He claims no ownership ('That would indeed be a burden ... The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves.'). But he has unquestionably some control within borders he has himself set. Old Man Willow may have dominion over all the trees in the Forest, but Toms songs are stronger songs, and Old Man Willow listens.
Listener Matt said he felt something about good and evil is lost in translation when talking about the trees' point-of-view. I agree. And during the whole discussion up until this point of the episode (approx 1h33m) I had been feeling it too. For my own response, I was reminded of Sam's first view of battle of Men against Men, which he did not like much.
He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace...
It's a common adage that history is written by the victors. And of course,'right' and 'wrong' are largely dependent on perspective. The American Revolutionary War, for example, is understandably not as big a deal in their history books. They've got over 2,000 years of history to be getting on with.
David Mitchell and Robert Webb have comedy sketch wherein they're playing Nazis, and which touches beautifully on the subject of perspective. Sitting around camp one evening, Mitchell turns to Webb and asks the poignant (albeit funny) question, Are we the baddies?
It's unlikely that many people fight in a war actively believing themselves to be on the wrong side of history. There does seem to be some level of objectivity involved.
Bringing things down in scale from war to four hobbits in a forest occupied by potentially malevolent trees: if anyone is well-positioned to give an objective opinion on Old Man Willow it is Tom Bombadil. Yet
Corey was right, I think, to point out that Tom was perhaps discouraging such black-and-white labelling.
Tom can certainly see the hobbits' perspective of fear and distrust. Yet he clearly sees the trees' perspective and their own distrust of things walking on two legs.
We do not think ourselves evil if we clear a forest for farmland. Yet what would the forest think?
We don't think ourselves wicked if we put down slug pellets to protect our cabbages. But what would slugs think?
Can we really be surprised that a sentient forest, who knows full well that things which walk on two legs have been responsible again and again for cutting down and burning trees? Are they not merely putting down slug pellets by way of trying do away with the hobbits? Is it really evil?
A note on dominion: Tom is Master. And there we can perhaps draw a comparison to Old Man Willow. Old Man Willow's power has
spread like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had under its dominion nearly all the trees of the Forest from the Hedge to the Downs.
Yet Tom is Master. He claims no ownership ('That would indeed be a burden ... The trees and the grasses and all things growing or living in the land belong each to themselves.'). But he has unquestionably some control within borders he has himself set. Old Man Willow may have dominion over all the trees in the Forest, but Toms songs are stronger songs, and Old Man Willow listens.