Greetings Professor and all, this is my first post here.
First I'd like to precise that I am not a native english speaker so that parts of my questions might seem naïve and have obvious answers for a native english speaker.
For years I have had questions about the Lotr poem the Lament for the Rohirrim .
I already tried english and english litterature forums but was mostly met with quips and mockery.
But now I discovered the Tolkien Professor Lotro streams on twitch which I like so I try my luck on these forums.
The question about the song Lament for the Rohirrim is :
The lyrics obviously refer to Eorl the Young and lament his death in TA 2545.
The first 6 lines are problemless and convey the nostalgy of the Rohirrim for their great King. It is probable that the poem was first sung during the burial of Eorl.
However I struggle with the last 2 lines.
"Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning
Or behold the flowing years, from the sea returning ?"
I guess that the dead wood burning refers to a funeral pyre so "gather" could have the meaning of "observe". Is that right ? I have never met the verb "gather" used in that sense - usually it means "I suppose that ..." , "I understand that ..." . Is that some very old sense used 100s of years ago ?
Also if "who" refers to "who in the stead of Eorl" or "who among the Rohirrim" it would mean that Eorl was the only one who "observed" funeral pyres what is surely not true . How is that to be understood ?
The last line is even more mysterious for me.
What/who "returns from the sea" ? The "flowing years" or "Eorl" the subject of the poem ?
It should be the "flowing years" because Eorl clearly never "returned from the sea" and Rohan was land enclosed with no sea shore.
In that case the line could be interpreted as a frequent metaphor of time flow as a river (Anduin) flow.
However this cannot work because a river never "returns from the sea", it flows to the sea.
Yet it bothers me because the interpretation I found : "Who will mourn the fallen Rohirrim and count the years of his old age (after he returns from a journey to Gondor/Belfallas)" was nicely in the nostalgic spirit of the rest of the poem offering a vision of an old Eorl who earned his peace.
Also why is there an alternative "Or behold ..." ? Why isn't that an "And behold ..." ?
So how can be understood this last line ?
Thanks in advance, I hope to solve my years long quest here
First I'd like to precise that I am not a native english speaker so that parts of my questions might seem naïve and have obvious answers for a native english speaker.
For years I have had questions about the Lotr poem the Lament for the Rohirrim .
I already tried english and english litterature forums but was mostly met with quips and mockery.
But now I discovered the Tolkien Professor Lotro streams on twitch which I like so I try my luck on these forums.
The question about the song Lament for the Rohirrim is :
The lyrics obviously refer to Eorl the Young and lament his death in TA 2545.
The first 6 lines are problemless and convey the nostalgy of the Rohirrim for their great King. It is probable that the poem was first sung during the burial of Eorl.
However I struggle with the last 2 lines.
"Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning
Or behold the flowing years, from the sea returning ?"
I guess that the dead wood burning refers to a funeral pyre so "gather" could have the meaning of "observe". Is that right ? I have never met the verb "gather" used in that sense - usually it means "I suppose that ..." , "I understand that ..." . Is that some very old sense used 100s of years ago ?
Also if "who" refers to "who in the stead of Eorl" or "who among the Rohirrim" it would mean that Eorl was the only one who "observed" funeral pyres what is surely not true . How is that to be understood ?
The last line is even more mysterious for me.
What/who "returns from the sea" ? The "flowing years" or "Eorl" the subject of the poem ?
It should be the "flowing years" because Eorl clearly never "returned from the sea" and Rohan was land enclosed with no sea shore.
In that case the line could be interpreted as a frequent metaphor of time flow as a river (Anduin) flow.
However this cannot work because a river never "returns from the sea", it flows to the sea.
Yet it bothers me because the interpretation I found : "Who will mourn the fallen Rohirrim and count the years of his old age (after he returns from a journey to Gondor/Belfallas)" was nicely in the nostalgic spirit of the rest of the poem offering a vision of an old Eorl who earned his peace.
Also why is there an alternative "Or behold ..." ? Why isn't that an "And behold ..." ?
So how can be understood this last line ?
Thanks in advance, I hope to solve my years long quest here
Last edited: