Oops! Season 1: Episode 11 Script Discussion

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
So ... I don't want to alarm anyone ... yet. The recording from last night's discussion is still processing, which ... might never actually stop. I've contacted Blab to see if they can do anything, but no response yet. Hopefully something can be done to rescue all of our super-amazing brilliance.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Well, that sucks. And yeah, I saw that just now as well. I will try to write up what we discussed while it is still fresh in my memory.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Episode 11: The Creation of the Dwarves

Frame: It is evening, and a party of dwarves make their way down into the valley of Rivendell. The tra-la-la-lally elves sing and welcome them. A fascinated Estel watches their approach, but before they arrive, he is called in to his supper. He asks his mother about the newcomers, but she has not yet seen them.

The next day, he bolts out of their house, eager to meet the strangers he saw the night before. So eager, that he runs around a corner without looking and bowls someone over - they get up, dust themselves off, and introductions reveal the newcomer to be Bilbo Baggins, just come from breakfast and off to explore Rivendell. Estel asks a question about what has brought them to Rivendell, and Bilbo gives an abbreviated, less riddling version of the description he will later give Smaug. Estel asks an innocent question (such as, 'do all dwarves live underground?') and Bilbo acts affronted for being mistaken for a dwarf. He identifies himself as a hobbit, and goes off on an epic rant about dwarves - clearly, these thoughts have been pent up for weeks. Confused, Estel apologizes for his error, and offers to show Bilbo around Rivendell. [Edit: Does Estel invite Bilbo to join him for his lesson in the library of Rivendell?]

Later that day at his lesson, Estel asks Elrond about dwarves and hobbits. Elrond mentions that hobbits are 'cousins' of Men, though he is not too certain of their origin himself, as they seldom travel and Bilbo is the first hobbit to visit Rivendell in a very long time indeed. Estel, recalling an earlier lesson, correctly identifies hobbits as being the Children of Ilúvatar, then, if they are related to Men. "But what about dwarves? Are they also related to the Children too?" Elrond pauses, and gives a bit of a disclaimer. "Not quite. I can tell you the story, as the elves tell it, but the dwarves very well may tell it quite differently." Estel might suggest they ask the dwarves, then, and Elrond would laugh a bit, saying, no, they wouldn't answer, and he has no desire to treat his guests rudely. Dwarves are secretive folk, and it does no good to pry.

Main Story: We open in Valinor. Aulë enters the Gardens of Lorien, and seeks out Irmo. He has a bit of a dilemma that has been worrying him, and he wants some advice. If the Children of Ilúvatar were in the Song, but they haven't arrived yet, perhaps the Valar are supposed to do something to bring that about? Is it enough to just prepare Arda for the arrival of the Children? Irmo talks about possibilities, and does not say that something *can't* be done. As they are talking, others join their conversation, drawn in by the fascinating topic of the Children. As each new person chimes in Aulë gets more and more uncomfortable. Tulkas and Nessa are in Lorien for some reason (visiting those injured by Ossë? Giving dance lessons? Who knows), and they seem interested in the idea. Tulkas thinks it's a good idea, and says something rather obvious like, "Aulë, you're good at making things!" Melian, or rather, an unidentified female attendant of Irmo, says something wistfully about how they've been waiting so long for the arrival of the Children. [Edit: Oromë points out that Middle Earth is currently a dangerous place, and perhaps not yet ready for the Children.] Nessa suggests that Aulë run his plan by Yavanna, as she will understand the growth of things better than the rest of them, and how it fits in the Music. Aulë agrees, but when he leaves, he does not seek out Yavanna.

Instead, he goes to his workshop, and he is there alone. He sits pondering for awhile, and then begins with a block of marble. We get a montage (with somewhat ominous music, our dwarf theme in a minor key or something) of him crafting Durin, which results in him with a fully formed (and clothed :p) dwarf who blinks its eyes and responds to the question Aulë asks him. Delighted, Aulë gets to work on the other dwarves, using Durin as his assistant/student. He explains what he's doing as he works, saying things about how he is choosing the materials to make them strong, hardy folk, because Arda has become a dangerous place, and he does not want them to get ensnared, etc. As he works, he becomes more and more dwarf-like himself (losing the vestiges of his elemental form - perhaps his stony skin becomes smooth.) He is very impressed at how apt a pupil Durin is, always understanding what is said to him, knowing what tool to get, nodding at all of Aulë's explanations. He praises him for it. But...the audience sees that when Aulë's attention is on his new dwarves, Durin loses some of his animation. He stands idly, waiting for Aulë to look back at him.

When Aulë has crafted 14 dwarves (look, the 7 Fathers of Dwarves need wives, just deal with it, unless you want Durin to be alone, then it can be 13. But...there are dwarf women in this scene, with their lovely beards. Otherwise, we have 7 dwarves, and nobody wants that), he is quite pleased with himself, and very enthusiastic about this project. He enthuses that, why stop there, he can make MORE! And he's teaching his dwarves to speak, and the doll-recitation scene is as creepy as it sounds, and the audience is suspecting that Aulë is about to accidentally unleash a zombie army.

About this time, he is interrupted by a voice from the fire in his Forge, which blazes brightly:

"Why have you done this? Why do you attempt a thing that you know is beyond your power and your authority? For you have from me as a gift your own being only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of your hand and mind can live only by that being, moving when you think to move them, and if your thought be elsewhere, standing idle. Is that your desire?"*

Aulë, who had looked up in surprise when he heard the voice, looks back at his creations and is devastated by the realization that they are puppets and he wasn't teaching them anything. Aulë's speech conveys, 'This isn't what I wanted' and he speaks with humility and regret, turning over his work to Ilúvatar, and ultimately resolving to fix the problem. He picks up a hammer and turns to his creatures.

Sparks from the fire light in their eyes, and the dwarves cower and beg for mercy.

"Your offer I accepted even as it was made. Do you not see that these things have now a life of their own, and speak with their own voices? Else they would not have flinched from your blow, nor from any command of your will."*

Aulë asks Eru to fix his work; Eru declines. They hide the dwarves under mountains to await the awakening of the Firstborn, as Eru is quite insistent - elves first.

The Frame: Estel asks some questions about the dwarves. He maybe also tries to figure out if what Aulë did was wrong.

That evening, Estel meets a dwarf for the first time. He is visiting the ponies in the stable, and there is a dwarf on guard duty (possibly Glóin). He gets some kind of gruff 'who goes there?' greeting, but then has a civil conversation. He is surprised that the dwarves need to guard their ponies in Rivendell, but there was some kerfluffle with the elves trying to let the ponies out at night, and the dwarves want them to stay in a barn while they have one, and, well, there are some words about elves and dwarves.

The next day, Bilbo and company are leaving Rivendell (Estel never met Thorin :p), and Estel and his mother are there to see them off. Bilbo sees Gilraen, looks between her and Estel in some surprise, and then says, 'is that....I mean to say, you're not an elf?' Because while Gilraen is obviously human (no pointy ears, no timeless eyes, wears human clothing), Estel did 'pass' as an elf, and Bilbo took him for an elf child. Gilraen is not pleased by this observation, but having cleared everything up, Estel gives Bilbo a gift of maybe a dozen eggs and some bacon. Bilbo then considers Estel the most wonderful human boy he's ever met.

We see the dwarves on their ponies leave the valley of Rivendell, with Estel asking his mother if she thinks they'll ever see them again?


*Keeping the 'thees, thous, thys and hasts' is left to the discretion of the script writer - keep Ilúvatar's language style consistent with Episodes 1 and 3. Also, DO NOT ALTER the dialogue from his side; Aulë's can be malleable as needed, but do not alter the word of God in this story.
 
Last edited:

Alex Long

Active Member
I don't know if it was brought up in the stream, but I always imagined Bilbo being taught the origin of the dwarves alongside Estel in Rivendell. After several weeks with dwarves, Bilbo might be interested in their origin. It could lead to Elrond warning Bilbo about trusting dwarves at the end of his story ("Never forget that they were born out of treachery" or something.) And just picture young Aragorn and Bilbo sitting cross-legged next to each other on the floor listening to Elrond tell the tale. Adorable.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Elrond is an elf, but I don't think he is highly prejudiced against dwarves. Yes, dwarves killed Thingol, who was his great-grandfather, but he saw the Fëanoreans kill a bunch of people in the Havens and was then adopted by them as a young child, sooooo......dwarves aren't high on his list of 'unforgivable' the way orcs are. Also, many of the residents of Rivendell are likely refugees from Eregion, who enjoyed friendship with the dwarves of Moria moreso than any other elf-dwarf interactions in history. So...I would want to find a way to introduce the deep-seated antagonism, without introducing a lot of blatant heavy-handed racism of the 'never trust a dwarf' variety.

Dwarves can be suspicious, elves can be antagonistic, but I want to see them working together and being (mostly) friendly to each other. Rivendell is not Mirkwood, and Elrond is not Thranduil. Now, if we want to have Elrond say something about how Durin's folk are good people, but you can't be as sure about some of the other dwarves out there in the world, I'd be more comfortable with that. Racism at the level of 'many of my good friends are dwarves!' is better than 'I can't stand dwarves' for who Elrond is as a character. Elrond is a historian, and we want him to be a trustworthy narrator, calling out his own prejudice and ignorance when necessary. Rivendell is the center of Lore in Middle Earth at this time.

But I agree, Bilbo sitting in on the lesson could be adorable :) We didn't really discuss that option when we were going through this, but I don't see why not.
 

Alex Long

Active Member
I wasn't implying that we cast Elrond in a racist light, but he definitely has his doubts about Thorin's party. I also didn't mean suggesting we spend a lot of time talking about the issue. My thought was to have it be more of an easter egg- a throw away line for the fans. Prof. Olsen himself has talked about how Thorin and Company were not necessarily written as heroes and still possessed many of the 'evil dwarf' tropes that Tolkien envisioned for the race as a whole pre-Lord of the Rings. Elrond's words could simply be a warning to Bilbo about putting complete trust in a company he barely knows made up entirely of a race whose history is less than faultless. That's all I meant. It's also one of the few opportunities we have to explore inter-Childrenal (that's not a word) relationships this season so I figured we should make the most of it (if at the very least for the foreshadowing.) The key is an empathetic face from the actor playing Elrond. Racists aren't known for their empathy.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
It's true that Elrond can be surprised by some of Gandalf's choices, and including a hobbit in this quest is likely one of those, 'What are you thinking?' moments. And I agree that Thorin's company is plenty curmudgeonly and easily swayed by love of gold and make too much noise when they travel - Bilbo is both the hero and the narrator (I mean, via the Red Book) of the story, and he certainly sees flaws in his companions.

This is our introduction to dwarves, the first dwarves Estel has ever seen, and the dwarf origin story...as told by the elves. I would like to portray the dwarves in a mostly positive light, while not glossing over their secretive and suspicious natures. I don't want to portray them as untrustworthy or flawed by their very nature - Eru says he'll leave them 'as-is', but Aulë made them strong to endure, not tainted with original sin. Eru adopts the dwarves as his Children *after* Aulë's repentance, so they aren't wholly born of rebellion. I want to see what is 'fundamental' about being a dwarf on display here - we'll get less savory elf-dwarf (and human-petty dwarf) interactions later in the story, but we don't need to over-emphasize this beyond alerting the audience that there's some history there, and it's not all good.

I agree that Elrond will need to be empathetic - the 'kind as summer' part of his nature should be on display.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Great work!

is Oromë here? If so, what does he say?]
Oromë could comment that Middle-earth currently is a really dangerous place, and that if the Children are to survive there, they need to be tough.

The tra-la-la-lally elves sing and welcome them
Are the elves being silly the way they are in the book? If so (which I would like), do they greet all guests this way, are they acting out of character because they have guests (like they're giving them a show - giving the dwarves the tourist version of elven behaviour), are they making fun of the dwarves in a way they don't normally do with guests or are they prone to silliness all the time?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for the comments! We do have silly dancing/singing elves in the Hall of Fire during the story of the Lamps (so, for episodes 5 and 6). So, the Rivendell elves are not serious all the time, and do have a playful side to them. To balance that, we do show them arming themselves and riding out against a threat in the next episode, so Rivendell is both.

As for....are they teasing the dwarves? YES. They are 'welcoming' their visitors, but they are also playing off of the long, long history between dwarves and elves, so there is plenty of undercurrent here. Part of the playfulness is to mask any hostility implied in the 'we've been watching you' nature of what they say. Whether or not they *actually* sing the tra-la-la-lally song is certainly up for discussion, but whatever we have them sing should be silly and playful and elvish. It's also possible that Estel is far enough away not to hear them clearly, so he just hears song and laughter further down the valley, and lights being lit as darkness falls faster at the bottom of a canyon, etc.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Two mo
Episode 11: The Creation of the Dwarves

Frame: It is evening, and a party of dwarves make their way down into the valley of Rivendell. The tra-la-la-lally elves sing and welcome them. A fascinated Estel watches their approach, but before they arrive, he is called in to his supper. He asks his mother about the newcomers, but she has not yet seen them.

The next day, he bolts out of their house, eager to meet the strangers he saw the night before. So eager, that he runs around a corner without looking and bowls someone over - they get up, dust themselves off, and introductions reveal the newcomer to be Bilbo Baggins, just come from breakfast and off to explore Rivendell. Estel asks a question about what has brought them to Rivendell, and Bilbo gives an abbreviated, less riddling version of the description he will later give Smaug. Estel asks an innocent question (such as, 'do all dwarves live underground?') and Bilbo acts affronted for being mistaken for a dwarf. He identifies himself as a hobbit, and goes off on an epic rant about dwarves - clearly, these thoughts have been pent up for weeks. Confused, Estel apologizes for his error, and offers to show Bilbo around Rivendell. [Edit: Does Estel invite Bilbo to join him for his lesson in the library of Rivendell?]

Later that day at his lesson, Estel asks Elrond about dwarves and hobbits. Elrond mentions that hobbits are 'cousins' of Men, though he is not too certain of their origin himself, as they seldom travel and Bilbo is the first hobbit to visit Rivendell in a very long time indeed. Estel, recalling an earlier lesson, correctly identifies hobbits as being the Children of Ilúvatar, then, if they are related to Men. "But what about dwarves? Are they also related to the Children too?" Elrond pauses, and gives a bit of a disclaimer. "Not quite. I can tell you the story, as the elves tell it, but the dwarves very well may tell it quite differently." Estel might suggest they ask the dwarves, then, and Elrond would laugh a bit, saying, no, they wouldn't answer, and he has no desire to treat his guests rudely. Dwarves are secretive folk, and it does no good to pry.

Main Story: We open in Valinor. Aulë enters the Gardens of Lorien, and seeks out Irmo. He has a bit of a dilemma that has been worrying him, and he wants some advice. If the Children of Ilúvatar were in the Song, but they haven't arrived yet, perhaps the Valar are supposed to do something to bring that about? Is it enough to just prepare Arda for the arrival of the Children? Irmo talks about possibilities, and does not say that something *can't* be done. As they are talking, others join their conversation, drawn in by the fascinating topic of the Children. As each new person chimes in Aulë gets more and more uncomfortable. Tulkas and Nessa are in Lorien for some reason (visiting those injured by Ossë? Giving dance lessons? Who knows), and they seem interested in the idea. Tulkas thinks it's a good idea, and says something rather obvious like, "Aulë, you're good at making things!" Melian, or rather, an unidentified female attendant of Irmo, says something wistfully about how they've been waiting so long for the arrival of the Children. [Edit: Oromë points out that Middle Earth is currently a dangerous place, and perhaps not yet ready for the Children.] Nessa suggests that Aulë run his plan by Yavanna, as she will understand the growth of things better than the rest of them, and how it fits in the Music. Aulë agrees, but when he leaves, he does not seek out Yavanna.

Instead, he goes to his workshop, and he is there alone. He sits pondering for awhile, and then begins with a block of marble. We get a montage (with somewhat ominous music, our dwarf theme in a minor key or something) of him crafting Durin, which results in him with a fully formed (and clothed :p) dwarf who blinks its eyes and responds to the question Aulë asks him. Delighted, Aulë gets to work on the other dwarves, using Durin as his assistant/student. He explains what he's doing as he works, saying things about how he is choosing the materials to make them strong, hardy folk, because Arda has become a dangerous place, and he does not want them to get ensnared, etc. As he works, he becomes more and more dwarf-like himself (losing the vestiges of his elemental form - perhaps his stony skin becomes smooth.) He is very impressed at how apt a pupil Durin is, always understanding what is said to him, knowing what tool to get, nodding at all of Aulë's explanations. He praises him for it. But...the audience sees that when Aulë's attention is on his new dwarves, Durin loses some of his animation. He stands idly, waiting for Aulë to look back at him.

When Aulë has crafted 14 dwarves (look, the 7 Fathers of Dwarves need wives, just deal with it, unless you want Durin to be alone, then it can be 13. But...there are dwarf women in this scene, with their lovely beards. Otherwise, we have 7 dwarves, and nobody wants that), he is quite pleased with himself, and very enthusiastic about this project. He enthuses that, why stop there, he can make MORE! And he's teaching his dwarves to speak, and the doll-recitation scene is as creepy as it sounds, and the audience is suspecting that Aulë is about to accidentally unleash a zombie army.

About this time, he is interrupted by a voice from the fire in his Forge, which blazes brightly:

"Why have you done this? Why do you attempt a thing that you know is beyond your power and your authority? For you have from me as a gift your own being only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of your hand and mind can live only by that being, moving when you think to move them, and if your thought be elsewhere, standing idle. Is that your desire?"*

Aulë, who had looked up in surprise when he heard the voice, looks back at his creations and is devastated by the realization that they are puppets and he wasn't teaching them anything. Aulë's speech conveys, 'This isn't what I wanted' and he speaks with humility and regret, turning over his work to Ilúvatar, and ultimately resolving to fix the problem. He picks up a hammer and turns to his creatures.

Sparks from the fire light in their eyes, and the dwarves cower and beg for mercy.

"Your offer I accepted even as it was made. Do you not see that these things have now a life of their own, and speak with their own voices? Else they would not have flinched from your blow, nor from any command of your will."*

Aulë asks Eru to fix his work; Eru declines. They hide the dwarves under mountains to await the awakening of the Firstborn, as Eru is quite insistent - elves first.

The Frame: Estel asks some questions about the dwarves. He maybe also tries to figure out if what Aulë did was wrong.

That evening, Estel meets a dwarf for the first time. He is visiting the ponies in the stable, and there is a dwarf on guard duty (possibly Glóin). He gets some kind of gruff 'who goes there?' greeting, but then has a civil conversation. He is surprised that the dwarves need to guard their ponies in Rivendell, but there was some kerfluffle with the elves trying to let the ponies out at night, and the dwarves want them to stay in a barn while they have one, and, well, there are some words about elves and dwarves.

The next day, Bilbo and company are leaving Rivendell (Estel never met Thorin :p), and Estel and his mother are there to see them off. Bilbo sees Gilraen, looks between her and Estel in some surprise, and then says, 'is that....I mean to say, you're not an elf?' Because while Gilraen is obviously human (no pointy ears, no timeless eyes, wears human clothing), Estel did 'pass' as an elf, and Bilbo took him for an elf child. Gilraen is not pleased by this observation, but having cleared everything up, Estel gives Bilbo a gift of maybe a dozen eggs and some bacon. Bilbo then considers Estel the most wonderful human boy he's ever met.

We see the dwarves on their ponies leave the valley of Rivendell, with Estel asking his mother if she thinks they'll ever see them again?


*Keeping the 'thees, thous, thys and hasts' is left to the discretion of the script writer - keep Ilúvatar's language style consistent with Episodes 1 and 3. Also, DO NOT ALTER the dialogue from his side; Aulë's can be malleable as needed, but do not alter the word of God in this story.
Two more thoughts: I imagined - and I think PubSil describes that - that Aulë goes to some secret place in Middle-earth to create the dwarves? I kind of like that, it makes him semi-conscious of the crime he is committing. And before that, in the discussion he has with the other Valar, he should get the idea that perhaps the will of Ilúvatar must work through him, that he as the instrument of Eru must create the Children.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Two mo

Two more thoughts: I imagined - and I think PubSil describes that - that Aulë goes to some secret place in Middle-earth to create the dwarves? I kind of like that, it makes him semi-conscious of the crime he is committing. And before that, in the discussion he has with the other Valar, he should get the idea that perhaps the will of Ilúvatar must work through him, that he as the instrument of Eru must create the Children.

Yeah, I've mentioned a few times that this should be a private, secret workshop.

Also, I've discovered why the video wouldn't finish processing. Apparently, we lost the last few minutes of the conversation, when we added the whole Dwarf-guarding-ponies scene.

Here's the last one.

 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Good call - the shop in Valinor would be too busy, with people coming and going. Perhaps he goes to his 'old' shop in the wreckage of Almaren to have enough peace and quiet to work alone?
Yes! That's a great idea.
 
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