S03E03 Script Discussion

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Still last-minute comments.


What is the motivation for Estel to run away from home? “he’s not going back” but... why? Did I miss a conversation in the previous episodes about him running away?

I wish it were acceptable to put the feast and dancing in Doriath before the first Angband scene. Otherwise it risks, at the least, making the Sindar look oblivious or naive. It also emphasizes the bizarre time compression.

ACT 1
[...]
2. Tol Eressëa - Ossë and Uinen are grieving the loss of the Teleri. Uinen is inconsolable, as she was closest to them. [Recall that Ossë has been banned from the coast of Valinor, and is not allowed any nearer than where he anchored this island.]
Really? Ossë is banned from Valinor? That’s.... a departure from the books. When did this happen?

Is he banned from all of Valinor, including Ezellohar and Mahanaxar and Valimar, or only banned from the coastline?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
In Season 1, we included Ossë's rebellion, where Melkor gets to him and he wages a storm war. One of the penalties of that action, after he repents, is that he has been banned from the coast of Valinor (like not being allowed in a particular nation's coastal waters). This is part of his motivation for anchoring Tol Eressëa where he does - that is far enough out to be within his realm, so he can still hang out with the Teleri while they are there.

He is not banned from Valinor itself, but we likely won't have any reason to show him on the land in Valinor at any point anyway. Ulmo's people are not often in Valinor.

The entirety of Season 1 deals with the Valar before the Awakening of the Elves, so there are many storylines there that do not originate in Tolkien's work. The additions are, however, meant to emphasize character traits and storylines that Tolkien did write. One of the important themes of the Season is developing Manwë's leadership, and showing consequences of rebellion (whether that be the balrogs during the destruction of the Lamps, Aulë's creation of the dwarves, Ossë's rebellion, or Sauron's defection to Melkor's side...and of course the fall of Melkor). Most of the consequences are just that - the natural results of the actions. Some of the consequences are more disciplinary in nature, though. Ossë's ban is one of the latter.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Thank you for answering my questions.

That seems overly harsh for somebody who was pardoned and redeemed. On the other hand, when the Exiles return to the West, they must be content with Eressea rather than Valinor itself. Oh well.

What about Estel?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Estel is feeling increasingly hemmed in by Imladhris. As he is growing up, the place he has spent his entire life feels like it is growing smaller. Meanwhile, word has reached Elrond that Sauron has set up shop in Mordor again, and Estel overhears that he will not be allowed to leave for the foreseeable future.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I'm listening to parts of your videos, and adding some clarifications/details from them. I seem to recall that in the podcast, there was something about Uinen calling up the storm accidentally in her rage and grief, and then Osse calms her down and the storm dissipates. The outline here shows her deliberately hurling it at the Noldor, and does not show her calming down afterwards. Do I remember right? If I do, is that a deliberate or accidental difference? In the recording it seemed like you didn't want Uinen to purposely attack them.

Also, unless I missed it, neither this outline nor the previous ones show Morgoth filling the Orcs with rage and hate and bloodlust. I also can't recall any scene in which Morgoth starts pouring his energy into Middle-earth. Don't we need to show both of those early this season?

Other than that I don't have many suggested revisions. Purple = suggested additions, strikeout = suggested deletions.


Season 3 Episode 3: Meanwhile in Beleriand (working title only)
Protagonist: Estel. The Frame will be the primary storyline in this episode.
Characters: Estel, Elladan, Elrohir, Elrond, Gilraen.
The Valar, Ossë, Uinen, Melkor/Morgoth, Gothmog, Mairon/Sauron, Boldog, Thuringwethil, Círdan, Celeborn, Thingol, Melian, Beleg, Mablung, Lúthien, Daeron, Eöl
Introductions: Lúthien, Daeron, orcs
Final Appearances: N/A

Summary:
What is an orc? The residents of Angband, Beleriand, and young Estel are learning that the hard way.
Theme: Loss of innocence


Frame teaser: Rivendell - Elrond tells an anxious Gilraen that there is no news yet of her missing son, but that his sons will find him and bring him home soon. She expresses gratitude that they're searching for him, and some embarrassed anger over her son recklessly putting others at risk for no reason. [The 'I don't know whether to hug him or punish him when I see him again' reaction] Sixteen-year-old Estel is standing on some rocky promontory on a wooded mountainside, watching a storm roll in. He seems rather unconcerned and happy where he is.


Act I
Scene 1.
Mahanaxar - The Valar sit/stand in the destroyed Ring of Doom in the aftermath of the Kinslaying. Nienna is not the only one weeping. Some, like Tulkas, express anger, saying that they could have put a stop to all of this. Ulmo, who has been still and quiet, responds that he could have stopped it, but then there would be no Ñoldor, and no Teleri, and no Alqualondë. He's coldly furious. Manwë reiterates why he thinks it best to not interfere at this time - that there is still a chance to save the Ñoldor from themselves. [Vairë and Mandos conspicuously absent, caring for the dead?]

Scene 2. Tol Eressëa - Ossë and Uinen are grieving the loss of the Teleri. Uinen is inconsolable, as she was closest to them. [Recall that Ossë has been banned from the coast of Valinor, and is not allowed any nearer than where he anchored this island.] When they see the fleet of stolen swanships leave the ruined harbor of Alqualondë, Uinen's grief turns to rage, and, though Ossë attempts to remind her that they are not to interfere, her wordless rage calls up a storm that she hurls at the ships. The (remaining) Teleri of Alqualondë see the storm coming, and the Ñoldor on the ships, who are not mariners, start to panic.

Scene 3. Frame: Misty Mountains - Estel has taken shelter under an overhanging rock to wait out the storm. While he is waiting there, Elladan and Elrohir come upon him. The twins inform Estel that they were sent to look for him, and that he worried his mother, leaving like that. Estel informs them that he's not going back, but if they want to come with him, they can. After realizing that they can't argue with the boy, the brothers decide to tag along with him until he's ready to be less hard-headed.

Scene 4. Angband - Melkor outlines his strategy for the time being. He fears retaliation from Valinor - the Valar, and probably Fëanor, are going to be coming for him after what he did to them, so he wants to be prepared. Gothmog and his Balrogs will take Orcs and defend the North from the West. Sauron Mairon, who has made no progress on finding the whereabouts of Ungoliant, is sent to conquer the South. The Elvish settlements have been growing (Melkor clearly hates them). His instructions concerning the Elves are 'Kill them all.' He Mairon may seem a bit surprised or taken aback by that order, but he's not in a position to call it into question, either. Glimpse of poorly-lit dungeons full of unhappy creatures.


Act II
Scene 5.
Coast of Valinor Aman - The storm of Uinen slams into the Telerin ships. They are all battered and lose direction and are clearly no longer being controlled by the Noldor... but the ships are sturdy and most of them survive anyway. Some do sink.

Scene 6. Eglarest - We cross the ocean to Beleriand. Círdan is standing and looking out to sea, troubled. It's overcast (few stars), and the water is a bit choppy, but there is no storm here; it's quiet, if windy. [Establishing shot of the town and port of Eglarest (early days).] Celeborn has come from Thingol (Elwë) for news, and so Círdan happily shows him the newest ship they have built (it is not nearly as fine as the swanships). [Audience hears the name 'Thingol' for the first time; perhaps Círdan still refers to him as Elwë.]

Scene 7. Doriath - Thingol's wandering woodland Court. These are the days of peace in Beleriand, so we should see what the Sindar are like before any wars trouble them - time for a party scene! [All of these characters need to be introduced (or reintroduced) by name.] Thingol and Melian are presiding over a feast in a well-lit forest glade (lots of lanterns and/or torches illuminate the space). Mablung and Beleg are there. [Galadhon and Galathil are among the court extras, but aren't introduced as speaking parts.] We establish the dynamics of the court. Thingol [in his eponymous grey cloak given to him by the Valar] is clearly the king and ruler, but the Court is fairly informal [maybe reminiscent of Elrond as Lord of Rivendell, rather than the court of the Noldor in Tirion, but should remind us of Olwë's court in Alqualondë, as well]. While there has been music and probably some dancing during the feast, afterwards someone requests that Lúthien dance. She is seated next to Melian, and she is revealed to be Melian's daughter. A hush falls, and a single musician (Daeron) provides music while Lúthien dances. [This is her entrance, make it count! Flowers blooming at her footfalls is not overdoing it.]

Scene 8. Frame: Misty Mountains (foothills) - Elladan, Elrohir, and Estel come upon fresh orc tracks [or some other indication that Orcs have passed by recently]. Elladan immediately wants to follow them, but Elrohir reminds him that they have Estel with them and should be more cautious. They agree to at least follow the trail and find out why these Orcs are coming down out of the mountains, what they are up to.


Act III
Scene 9.
Doriath - Sometime after the feast, Celeborn returns to Thingol with his report from Círdan. While Círdan has no news to report, he too has been uneasy and shares Melian's concern that something is not right. The raising of Thangorodrim was seen from a distance and reported to Thingol, but no one knows what it means yet. Melian says something cryptically disturbing, but she suspects this has something to do with Melkor. Thingol orders Beleg, Mablung, and Celeborn to take a few companions and go out again (Beleg to the west, Mablung to the east, and Celeborn to the north) to see if they can find any indication of what has happened.

Scene 10. Doriath - Daeron and Lúthien have a moment to discuss life and establish their totally platonic friendship. It is revealed at this point that they are *not* related [mention Daeron's parents?] - no one should think he is her brother after this (but they probably never actually touch one another. Ever.) They are the younger generation, and have only known life in Beleriand. They have a shared enthusiasm for the arts and creativity.

Scene 11. Frame: Misty Mountains (foothills) - As they follow the track of the Orcs, Elladan lets everyone know how he really feels about the creatures, cursing them intemperately. Estel interrupts this to say, 'Wait...doesn't your father say that no creature is evil from the beginning?' Elrohir is left with the awkward task of trying to defend his father's words while agreeing with his brother - The Orcs were not in their origin evil, but they have all been ruined and have become wholly evil pawns of the Enemy. - something along the lines of, 'Well, they're evil now.' The trail of the Orcs turns, and Elladan and Elrohir stop and exchange a look. If this is an orc scouting party, it is headed towards a Dunadan village. Elladan points out that they can't afford to let the Orcs find their target, so Elrohir instructs Estel to wait for them. Estel point out that he'll just follow them anyway. They continue on despite Estel's presence

Scene 12. Angband - Mairon is in the orc-training pits, observing. Boldog is there, keeping them in line. Thuringwethil finds Mairon there and tells him that he'll have to keep a close eye on his troops, because Gothmog's group has had deserters. [Gothmog has taken an army of Orcs to guard the western coast in the north from any attack from Valinor; this is discussed on screen, but not shown.]


Act IV
Scene 13.
Western Beleriand - Beleg's party roaming towards Ered Wethrin comes upon a group of Orcs, but from a distance. [These are some of the deserters from Gothmog's army that Thuringwethil mentioned to Mairon.] The Elves decide to follow them and find out who or what these creatures are. Some confusion among the Elves about whether these are beasts or 'ones who speak'.

Scene 14. Western Beleriand - First contact between Elves and Orcs. The Elves approach cautiously to see a distasteful scene - the group of about 20 beings are eating bloody meat/organs while a tree nearby is haphazardly set on fire. Beleg calls out to them, and the creatures turn to see the Elves. Everyone is startled at first. There are some attempts to communicate, but they don't speak the same languages. Some critical mis-step leads to an outbreak of sudden violence. The Orcs attack the Elves, outnumbering them.

Scene 15. Frame: Eriador - Elladan and Elrohir come upon the Orcs. There is no hesitation - instant deadly fighting. Estel is trained, but has never been in a real combat situation before. So, he's not clumsy, but he is ineffective - one orc is enough to keep him busy, but he does kill it in the end. Elladan and Elrohir kill the rest of the scouts, making sure none escape.

Scene 16. Western Beleriand - The Elves do not have steel weapons and are not wearing armor. Beleg's arrows are stopped by the orc armor, so he has a hard time stopping them. He recovers the weapon of one of the fallen Orcs and uses that to kill them. Once the Orcs see that their opponent is killing them, they flee. Beleg's companions are dead and he grieves. His bow is broken. [He does not say, "I'm gonna need a bigger bow." But he does.]


Frame Tag - Eriador - Aftermath of Estel's first orc kill. He is shaken and very quiet. The twins praise him, give him space by telling him to clean his sword. He cleans it his sword, washing the blood off his clothes in a stream. The blood spreads through the water.

Tag (Part 2) -
Mount Dolmed - Eöl is meeting with an unseen person in a dark cave lit by firelight from a forge. A voice from within the cave calls out to him by name. [The unknown person is a dwarf (probably Telchar); the audience does not see this person.]
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
About Daeron´s family... I know Daeron was supposed to be Lutghien´s brother in the ealiest Versions... I think we could play with the Iea and have Daeron mention that Thingol was like a father to him - that would leave open what happenen to his real parents and suggest he was an orphan (and leave open if his parents were among those elves who strangely disappeared, if Morgoth /his faction had their hands in it or not - who knows?)

Another thing:

funny enough, when Carcharoth is hunted Mablung DOES indeed wield a heavy and great spear once captured from the Orcs/Angband...(in Lost Tales!)

It would see a nice nod if the weapon found by Beleg actually was a spear.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
First comment - this episode needs a title. It's a weird episode, it's true, but we do have to call it something other than 'Meanwhile, In Beleriand'! Any suggestions? The focus of this episode is on meeting the orcs.

Season 3 Episode 3: Meanwhile in Beleriand (working title only)
Protagonist: Estel. The Frame will be the primary storyline in this episode.
Characters: Estel, Elladan, Elrohir, Elrond, Gilraen.
The Valar, Ossë, Uinen, Melkor/Morgoth, Gothmog, Mairon/Sauron, Boldog, Thuringwethil, Círdan, Celeborn, Thingol, Melian, Beleg, Mablung, Lúthien, Daeron, Eöl
Introductions: Lúthien, Daeron, orcs
Final Appearances: N/A

Summary:
What is an orc? The residents of Angband, Beleriand, and young Estel are learning that the hard way.
Theme: Loss of innocence
Conflict: How do you deal with hostile enemies for the first time?

Frame teaser: Rivendell - Elrond tells an anxious Gilraen that there is no news yet of her missing son, but that his sons will find him and bring him home soon. She expresses gratitude that they're searching for him, and some embarrassed anger over her son recklessly putting others at risk for no reason. [The 'I don't know whether to hug him or punish him when I see him again' reaction] Sixteen-year-old Estel is standing on some rocky promontory on a wooded mountainside, watching a storm roll in. He seems rather unconcerned and happy where he is.


Act I
Scene 1.
Mahanaxar - The Valar sit/stand in the destroyed Ring of Doom in the aftermath of the Kinslaying. Nienna is not the only one weeping. Some, like Tulkas, express anger, saying that they could have put a stop to all of this. Ulmo, who has been still and quiet, responds that he could have stopped it, but then there would be no Noldor, and no Teleri, and no Alqualondë. He's coldly furious. Manwë reiterates why he thinks it best to not interfere at this time - that there is still a chance to save the Noldor from themselves. [Vairë and Mandos conspicuously absent, caring for the dead?]

Scene 2. Tol Eressëa - Ossë and Uinen are grieving the loss of the Teleri. Uinen is inconsolable, as she was closest to them. [Recall that Ossë has been banned from the coast of Valinor, and is not allowed any nearer than where he anchored this island.] When they see the fleet of stolen swanships leave the ruined harbor of Alqualondë, Uinen's grief turns to rage, and, though Ossë attempts to remind her that they are not to interfere, her wordless rage calls up a storm that she hurls at the ships. The (remaining) Teleri of Alqualondë see the storm coming, and the Noldor on the ships, who are not mariners, start to panic.

Scene 3. Frame: Misty Mountains - Estel has taken shelter under an overhanging rock to wait out the storm. While he is waiting there, Elladan and Elrohir come upon him. The twins inform Estel that they were sent to look for him, and that he worried his mother, leaving like that. Estel informs them that he's not going back, but if they want to come with him, they can. After realizing that they can't argue with the boy, the brothers decide to tag along with him until he's ready to be less hard-headed.

Scene 4. Angband - Melkor outlines his strategy for the time being. He fears retaliation from Valinor - the Valar, and probably Fëanor, are going to be coming for him after what he did to them, so he wants to be prepared. Gothmog and his Balrogs will take Orcs and defend the North from the West. Mairon, who has made no progress on finding the whereabouts of Ungoliant, is sent to conquer the South. The Elvish settlements have been growing (Melkor clearly hates them). His instructions concerning the Elves are 'Kill them all.' Mairon may seem a bit surprised or taken aback by that order, but he's not in a position to call it into question, either. Glimpse of poorly-lit dungeons full of unhappy creatures.


Act II
Scene 5.
Coast of Aman - The storm of Uinen slams into the Telerin ships. They are all battered and lose direction and are clearly no longer being controlled by the Noldor... but the ships are sturdy and most of them survive anyway. Some do sink.

Scene 6. Eglarest - We cross the ocean to Beleriand. Círdan is standing and looking out to sea, troubled. It's overcast (few stars), and the water is a bit choppy, but there is no storm here; it's quiet, if windy. [Establishing shot of the town and port of Eglarest (early days).] Celeborn has come from Thingol (Elwë) for news, and so Círdan happily shows him the newest ship they have built (it is not nearly as fine as the swanships). [Audience hears the name 'Thingol' for the first time; perhaps Círdan still refers to him as Elwë.]

Scene 7. Doriath - Thingol's wandering woodland Court. These are the days of peace in Beleriand, so we should see what the Sindar are like before any wars trouble them - time for a party scene! [All of these characters need to be introduced (or reintroduced) by name.] Thingol and Melian are presiding over a feast in a well-lit forest glade (lots of lanterns and/or torches illuminate the space). Mablung and Beleg are there. We establish the dynamics of the court. Thingol [in his eponymous grey cloak given to him by the Valar] is clearly the king and ruler, but the Court is fairly informal [maybe reminiscent of Elrond as Lord of Rivendell, rather than the court of the Noldor in Tirion, but should remind us of Olwë's court in Alqualondë, as well]. While there has been music and probably some dancing during the feast, afterwards someone requests that Lúthien dance. She is seated next to Melian, and she is revealed to be Melian's daughter. A hush falls, and a single musician (Daeron) provides music while Lúthien dances. [This is her entrance, make it count! Flowers blooming at her footfalls is not overdoing it.]

Scene 8. Frame: Misty Mountains (foothills) - Elladan, Elrohir, and Estel come upon fresh orc tracks [or some other indication that Orcs have passed by recently]. Elladan immediately wants to follow them, but Elrohir reminds him that they have Estel with them and should be more cautious. They agree to at least follow the trail and find out why these Orcs are coming down out of the mountains, what they are up to.


Act III
Scene 9.
Doriath - Sometime after the feast, Celeborn returns to Thingol with his report from Círdan. While Círdan has no news to report, he too has been uneasy and shares Melian's concern that something is not right. The raising of Thangorodrim was seen from a distance and reported to Thingol, but no one knows what it means yet. Melian says something cryptically disturbing, but she suspects this has something to do with Melkor. Thingol orders Beleg, Mablung, and Celeborn to take a few companions and go out again (Beleg to the west, Mablung to the east, and Celeborn to the north) to see if they can find any indication of what has happened.

Scene 10. Doriath - Daeron and Lúthien have a moment to discuss life and establish their totally platonic friendship. It is revealed at this point that they are *not* related [mention Daeron's parents?] - no one should think he is her brother after this (but they probably never actually touch one another. Ever.) They are the younger generation, and have only known life in Beleriand. They have a shared enthusiasm for the arts and creativity.

Scene 11. Frame: Misty Mountains (foothills) - As they follow the track of the Orcs, Elladan lets everyone know how he really feels about the creatures, cursing them intemperately. Estel interrupts this to say, 'Wait...doesn't your father say that no creature is evil from the beginning?' Elrohir is left with the awkward task of trying to defend his father's words while agreeing with his brother - The Orcs may not have been evil in their origin, but they have all been ruined and have become wholly evil pawns of the Enemy. The trail of the Orcs turns, and Elladan and Elrohir stop and exchange a look. If this is an orc scouting party, it is headed towards a village of the Dunedain. Elladan points out that they can't afford to let the Orcs find their target, so Elrohir instructs Estel to wait for them. Estel point out that he'll just follow them anyway. They continue on despite Estel's presence.

Scene 12. Angband - Melkor, seated on his throne, invests his power in Middle Earth. Whatever Melkor is doing results in an awful lot of howling from the orcs. Mairon is in the orc-training pits, observing. Boldog is there, keeping them in line. Thuringwethil finds Mairon there and tells him that he'll have to keep a close eye on his troops, because Gothmog's group has had deserters. [Gothmog has taken an army of Orcs to guard the western coast in the north from any attack from Valinor; their departure was not shown.]


Act IV
Scene 13.
Western Beleriand - Beleg's party roaming towards Ered Wethrin comes upon a group of Orcs, but from a distance. [These are some of the deserters from Gothmog's army that Thuringwethil mentioned to Mairon.] The Elves decide to follow them and find out who or what these creatures are. Some confusion among the Elves about whether these are beasts or 'ones who speak'.

Scene 14. Western Beleriand - First contact between Elves and Orcs. The Elves approach cautiously to see a distasteful scene - the group of about 20 beings are eating bloody meat/organs while a tree nearby is haphazardly set on fire. Beleg calls out to them, and the creatures turn to see the Elves. Everyone is startled at first. There are some attempts to communicate, but they don't speak the same languages. Some critical mis-step leads to an outbreak of sudden violence. The Orcs attack the Elves, outnumbering them.

Scene 15. Frame: Eriador - Elladan and Elrohir come upon the Orcs. There is no hesitation - instant deadly fighting. Estel is trained, but has never been in a real combat situation before. So, he's not clumsy, but he is ineffective - one orc is enough to keep him busy, but he does kill it in the end. Elladan and Elrohir kill the rest of the scouts, making sure none escape.

Scene 16. Western Beleriand - The Elves do not have steel weapons and are not wearing armor. Beleg's arrows are stopped by the orc armor, so he has a hard time stopping them. He recovers the weapon of one of the fallen Orcs (a spear) and uses that to kill them. Once the Orcs see that their opponent is killing them, they flee. Beleg's companions are dead and he grieves. His bow is broken. [He does not say, "I'm gonna need a bigger bow." But he does.]


Frame Tag - Eriador - Aftermath of Estel's first orc kill. He is shaken and very quiet. The twins praise him, give him space by telling him to clean his sword. He cleans it, washing the blood off his clothes in a stream. The black blood spreads through the water.

Tag (Part 2) -
Mount Dolmed - Eöl is meeting with an unseen person in a dark cave lit by firelight from a forge. A voice from within the cave calls out to him by name. [The unknown person is a dwarf (probably Telchar); the audience does not see this person.]
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I do like the idea of using 'Glamhoth' as a name for the orcs at first, to distinguish the experiences of the Sindar meeting them for the first time, and that of the Sons of Elrond, who are all too familiar with this foe. I'll change the working title to that. After all, we can't really be calling them 'orcs' yet, I wouldn't think.
 
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