S04E07 Script Discussion

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
MY NOTES!!!


A Plot - Thingol Learns of the Kinslaying and confronts the children of Finarfin.
B Plot - Angrod and Finrod seek Thingol’s aid after Edhellos’ capture.
C Plot - Caranthir establishing relations with the Dwarves. Curufin gets Angrist.

Keep Helevorn: Curufin and Amras arrive. Dwarves admire Curufin’s sword. Telchar’s skill is brought up as vaguely (potentially) superior. Caranthir gets upset by this.


Teaser
Bilbo and Balin are drinking. Balin is drunkenly going on about how much he trusts Bilbo, even after the thing with the Arkenstone. I know you wouldn’t do anything like that again. Bilbo guiltily confesses the secret Gandalf asked him to keep. (The Elves may not have fully paid for their awesome magic doors).

Act I
Galadriel and Celeborn are being couplely in Doriath under sunlight. They talk about the recent eclipse, wondering if Morgoth might have had something to do with it. He says that he’s glad she is making a life for herself here in Doriath. Galadriel expresses her happiness in Menegroth and how much she is learning from the Sindar.

Finrod + Angrod arrive, and word is brought to Galadriel who runs to greet her brothers. She’s happy to see them. They might have noticed how well she is doing, if they didn’t look so dour themselves. She inquires as to what it wrong, and Angrod relates the story of Edhellos’ capture. Beleg is present. He is sympathetically concerned but he reassures them that no evil can pass the Girdle. Finrod mentions that they passed through it. Finrod is justifiably impressed. Beleg says that Thingol is holding court that afternoon and that they should bring this information to him then.

Curufin and Amras arrive at Keep Helevorn. Caranthir introduces them to the dwarves. He’s quite proud of himself. As they are sitting to eat, Caranthir loudly says that now the dwarves will have no need to trade with those dark elves down south. This immediately makes everyone who is paying attention uncomfortable (notably Telchar, Amras, and Curufin).


Cirdan delivers his information to Thingol and Mablung. CAREFULLY. He only tells him things he knows for certain. The Feanorians burned the ships, betraying the other Noldor, but… In order to get those ships, something bad must have happened, and the general silence of the other Noldor implicates them all. Thingol is silent but slowly getting more angry. Mablung protests:Surely their new friends could not do anything like that. Cirdan understands his reticence, but he has been amongst the Noldor quite a lot and that it is not only grief that causes their silence. Thingol finally turns to Mablung and tells him that they will get to the bottom of this.

Act II
Galadriel is teaching Luthien a song (that venerates the Valar) in Quenya to kill time while her brothers are getting ready to meet with Thingol. Soldiers suddenly come in to escort Galadriel away. Luthien is horrified and wants to know what this is about. The soldiers don’t have a good answer for her beyond that their orders come from Thingol. Luthien reassures Galadriel that she will speak to her father, there must be a mistake. The soldiers and Galadriel pass Celeborn on their way and she looks at him, hurt. He is as confused as Luthien as to what is happening. Galadriel is brought to a comfortable room and left there alone.

Thingol meets with Angrod and Finrod, who seem blissfully unaware of what is going on. The scene proceeds more or less as it is written, but Angrod’s reply includes information about the death of Olwe. He has them thrown in the holding room where Galadriel is, to await their doom.

Caranthir is talking to the dwarves’ party leader outside the keep. He is reminding him that if he wants to do business with the Noldor, he has to come through Caranthir. If he wants to be allowed to do so, all of their business with the Sindar must also come through him. Amras looks prepared to intervene, but Curufin holds him back.”Not now.”

Luthien goes to Thingol to find out what’s happened. Thingol insinuates that Galadriel has not been entirely honest with Luthien. Luthien says that she knows this, that she never asked for complete honesty from Galadriel. Thingol reveals the kinslaying a little at a time. Olwe. Earwen. They slew our people across the sea over some ships that they then burned. Luthien absorbs all of this in horror. After it has sunk in, she asks Thingol what he is going to do.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I hate you weird forum software...


Act III

Frame: Gandalf bursts in on a sleeping, slightly hungover Bilbo. He is furious with Bilbo for his blabbery. Gandalf trusted Bilbo to do the right thing with the information. Dain confronted the Elvenking, demanding payment. Thranduil has completely denied the whole thing and taken control of the city hall. He is holding Dain for the insults they exchanged. Bard is furious because there is likely to be blood in his streets. Just as Gandalf says this, they hear marching outside.They look out the window and see armored dwarves marching towards the center of the city. Bilbo asks Gandalf what he should do? Gandalf has no good answers for him but says that whatever he does it must be quick.
Angrod and Finrod join Galadriel in confinement. They tell her, what she already suspects is true, that Thingol knows. They wonder how that could have happened. Finrod suggests that he thinks it has to do with something that happened at the Mereth Aderthad. Angrod is devastated because the rescue of Edhellos is now completely out of reach. Galadriel feels completely alone because of her guilt, both over the kinslaying but over her “betrayal” of the Noldor, which certainly is the reason why this is happening. Finrod wonders how long they will be held there. Angrod says Thingol thinks we are killers. They could hold them there forever, or not very long at all. Either way, I think we shall not see our homes soon.

Luthien finds Melian in her grotto. Luthien is devastated by the betrayal, both by the Noldor collectively and Galadriel personally. She doesn’t know if Thingol is going to make the right choice, and she doesn’t know if she is going to make the right choice with Galadriel. Melian articulates what Galadriel must be feeling. Luthien may not be able to trust her, but if you don’t forgive her, you might both be lost.

Amras tells Curufin that Maedhros isn’t going to let Caranthir’s call stand. He wants to know what Curufin is going to do about this since he won’t let Amras act. Curufin lists the reasons why he can’t just work directly against Caranthir in this case. His keep. His soldiers. Curufin isn’t in charge. Amras insists that they have to do something. Curufin allows himself to be talked into intervening.

Act IV

Melian meets with Thingol, humbly standing before the throne despite her greater power. Thingol’s sword is sitting across his lap. Melian asks Thingol if he has decided what to do. Thingol asks what she would have him do. She would have him do what is best for his people. Thingol expresses frustration at her non-answer. She reminds him that his brother’s grandchildren are also his people and Galadriel has walked at my side for some time now, becoming one of your own subjects. Will you also be a slayer of kin?

Luthien is going to meet with Galadriel as her brothers are being led out to face Thingol’s judgement. Galadriel is alone. Luthien asks if Galadriel has eaten. Galadriel hasn’t even thought of food. Galadriel expresses her sorrow. Luthien asks if she is sorry for what was done or that it was found out. Galadriel says that she has never stopped being sorry for what was done. Galadriel says that she trusted Celeborn to do the right thing with this information and she supposes that he did. Luthien is confused. You mean Cirdan? They look at each other, realizing the misunderstanding that has happened. Celeborn rushes into the room, concerned for Galadriel’s well-being. Luthien turns to him and says flatly that he knew. Celeborn admits this and says that the Noldor suffer no less than “us”. Those who are guilty of murder must carry that guilt for as long as Arda persists. And, not all of them are. Olwe was Galadriel’s grandfather. Earwen her mother. Are you truly more bereaved than she.

At Caranthir’s keep, things have come to a head between Caranthir and the dwarves who say they will have to talk to their king about this (spoiler alert: they’re not). Curufin steps in and pulls Caranthir aside. He talks to Caranthir in the window overlooking the road. He talks about how maybe it would be better if the dwarves traded with both the Sindar and the Noldor if there was a way for Caranthir to get a piece of all of it. As he says this, Curufin is playing with the rings on his fingers, taking them off and placing them in a row on the stone sill. As he finishes, he picks one up, holding it out towards Caranthir. Who suddenly has a brilliant idea. He goes to the dwarves and says that he will allow them to pass. They must pay a toll, though. The dwarven leader seems incredulous, but Telchar takes out a sturdy-looking dagger. She offers it to Caranthir on account. When Caranthir doesn’t seem impressed, Telchar tells him that it will cut through other metals, and will not break unless you take more than is your due. Caranthir looks at her and laughs again, then turns to give it to Curufin. In “gratitude” for his helpful advice.

Thingol has Angrod and Finrod brought before him in a public audience. Melian and his full court are in attendance. Thingol delivers the ban as he judgement. He allows the sons of Finarfin to return at a future point when he’s cooled off. Finrod asks about their sister, concerned about her. Melian speaks up and says that Galadriel may remain in her care for as long as she wills.

Tag

Frame: Bilbo confronts Balin and the dwarves at City Hall. Bilbo trusted Balin to do what was right. Are we going to commemorate the battle of Five Armies with a battle of Three armies? Balin looks around and realizes what is about to happen. (Terrified humans closing their shutters). He loudly commands the dwarves to stand down. A few moments later, Gandalf emerges with Dain. Gandalf explains that once the dwarves fell back, Thranduil was more willing to listen to reason and released Dain into my custody. Gandalf tells Dain that perhaps he should wait outside the city until everyone’s head is much cooler.

Final montage: Caranthir happily collecting tolls - Melian, Luthien, and Galadriel walking together - Finrod and Angrod are looking back over their shoulders as they exit the Girdle - Edhellos in her cell.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
It occurs to me that we should show Cirdan's reaction to hearing the Bank proclaimed, so while it is the full court, he is definitely there. What should that reaction be?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
I went ahead and wrote a script for this episode before I go back and write one for Episode 3. It does not feature the Bank of Thingol, though perhaps Caranthir will have to open a bank to handle the tolls he gets from the Dwarves. :)

The Dwarf who is the leader of the party that meets Caranthir needs a name.
 

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Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
About the naming of the inn: I like it, but I'm not sure that Bard is the one to whom Balin should have made the suggestion. Would not the proprietor be more appropriate? Or is that Bard? :)


Edit: Also, Balin says that he was inspired by the Green Dragon in the Shire, after which, Bilbo corrects him that it was, in fact, the Green Dragon. I'm thinking that your brain may have just revolted against the error while typing it out.

Re-Edit: Ok, I see what you're doing now. I'm not really sold on the joke, but I retract my earlier objection. :)
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
You would never ever never
lie, and I would trust you with anything.
It is the "never ever lie" part of this that I think a shade too far. Saying that he is an honest burglar and that Balin would trust him with anything is likely sufficient.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
So... question, when did it change from a partial solar eclipse to a lunar eclipse? With Durin's Day taking place at the opposite end of the lunar cycle, isn't that a bit of an issue?
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
It is the "never ever lie" part of this that I think a shade too far. Saying that he is an honest burglar and that Balin would trust him with anything is likely sufficient.
Balin is fairly tipsy at this point, so I was trying to make his dialogue a bit rambling.
 

Rhiannon

Well-Known Member
So... question, when did it change from a partial solar eclipse to a lunar eclipse? With Durin's Day taking place at the opposite end of the lunar cycle, isn't that a bit of an issue?
I think I remember us talking about making the frame eclipse a lunar eclipse to make it different from the one in the main story, but you're right that a lunar eclipse would occur on the full moon. I'll change it to a solar eclipse for both.

By the way, Durin's Day for 2019 will be October 29.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I think I remember us talking about making the frame eclipse a lunar eclipse to make it different from the one in the main story, but you're right that a lunar eclipse would occur on the full moon. I'll change it to a solar eclipse for both.

By the way, Durin's Day for 2019 will be October 29.
I think we talked about making it a partial. At least on the video.
 
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