Season 1: Episode 12 Script Discussion

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
Ok, so I know that we don't have a MithLuin this week, and I want to see who else will be able to participate this weekend. I've kind of gotten over the fear of broadcasting by myself, but that doesn't mean I like doing it. :) I'm probably going to do it Sunday night at 7 again, unless I get a person or two who is willing to be on camera and can only do Saturday.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
For about a day, it looked like last night's Blab was also lost.

However, the blab team rescued not only that one, by the one from last week! I'll have them up as quick as I can.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Thank goodness! Glad they were rescued, as we will no doubt want to refer back to these discussions if the outlines are approved for actual script writing purposes. I will listen and get caught up as soon as I can :)
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Oh, I will eventually need to know if this coming weekend's (final?) script discussion will be on Saturday or Sunday, so I can plan accordingly. Were there any thoughts on that yet?
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I think it will have to be Sunday this time. My new job doesn't close until 7 on Saturdays and it takes me almost an hour to get home. When my wife and I move in mid-May, I could do Saturday as early as 7:30, but until then....
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, this episode is quite technical to outline - lots of stuff going on, and all interconnected. I will start an outline, and then come back and edit it.

Here's the first pass:

Frame: Elrond goes to Gilraen's cottage to give the lesson, to escape from the main house at Rivendell for awhile. The lead up to this is White Council business involving the Necromancer.

1. Yavanna encounters a 'wild' (rabid) beast and puts it to sleep.
2. Yavanna discusses the 'twisted' beasts with Oromë, who points out that they would be a hazard to the Children, whom he is looking for.
3. Yavanna talks to Aulë about her concerns for her creatures. He confesses to her about the dwarves. She says, 'You should have talked to me.'
4. Mairon talks to Aulë about the chain, and (horrified), steals a link.
5. Yavanna talks to Manwë about Ents and Eagles (not giving away Aulë's dwarf secret).
6. The Valar hold a council to determine what to do about Middle Earth. Manwë wants peace - others are in favor of fighting or passively going along with someone else. Manwë asks Mandos to speak, and he says, "I'm not the one you should be asking." Manwë decides to send Eonwë to summon Melkor to their council, so he can speak for himself and settle this once and for all.
7. Mairon in Utumno; gives link to Melkor. Melkor paints himself as someone about to be besieged. Eonwë arrives, and Melkor sends him out the back door to keep his association secret (for his own safety, of course...) Melkor gives Mairon the idea to revisit the ruins of Almaren. [Is Gothmog here?]
8. Melkor politely declines Eonwë's summons (okay, more with a sneer, but he's not violent). He then sics Gothmog on Eonwë, who is chased/captured/imprisoned by all the balrogs with that link.
9. Manwë and Varda talk - he decides to consult Ilúvatar.
10. Massive Montage!
10a. Manwë's vision of the Music and the future of Middle Earth, with a (remembered) line from Ilúvatar about everything becomes part of his theme.
10b. Varda kindles the stars.
10c. Melkor in Utumno preps for war.
10d. Mairon, wandering in Middle Earth, sees the newly kindled Sickle of the Valar and then later hears singing (offscreen)
11. Manwë comes down from the peak of Taniquetal and tells Varda he knows what he must do. The eagles are with him now.
12. The balrogs kill Eonwë, throwing his body down a cliff.
13. Irmo tells Manwë about Eonwë's death, and his spirit is in Lorien.
14. Mairon returns to Utumno, and when Melkor asks him, 'Well, have you made your decision?' Mairon replies, "I've found the Children, my lord."

Frame: Gilraen confronts Elrond over whatever he is hiding from, offering her advice: the worst decision is to not make a decision. Also, we probably need to decide to tell Estel he's one of the Dunedain.

I'm sure some of that is wrong/ out-of-order - I'll listen to the discussion again later and set it right.
 
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MithLuin

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Staff member
So, I got a little confused on one part. The timing after Eonwë's capture is a bit hazy to me.

Version 1: We cut from Utumno to Taniquetal, where Varda and Manwë have the conversation that leads to Manwë seeking out Ilúvatar and Varda making the stars. Melkor in Utumno sees the stars, and takes it as a challenge of war. Mairon, wandering in Middle Earth, sees the same....and hears the singing of the Children. Manwë tells Varda that he has made his decision. After the vision, Melkor's war preparations result in the command to kill the messenger, and the balrogs kill Eonwë. Eonwë's disembodied spirit flees to Lorien while his body lies broken at the bottom of a cliff. Mairon arrives in Utumno and reports to Melkor.

Version 2: The balrogs kill Eonwë instantly. His spirit flees to Lorien, and Irmo reports what has happened to Manwë. Then, Varda and Manwë talk and she tells him, 'you know what you have to do.' Vision/Star-kindling montage, with Melkor's war-prep cut in. Afterwards, we have Mairon's discovery of the Children and return to Melkor.

I think it's important to preserve Melkor as the aggressor, which killing Eonwë prior to the declaration of War does. But allowing him to paint the Valar as the aggressors because of the stars is a good nuance to this. So, it's very good that Mairon not be there when Eonwë is killed. I'm just not sure when he should be killed, or how much of the 'no, don't worry, he's not quite dead!' we want to show right away.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure I understand what's happening with Mairon. Why does he steal a link of a chain (and why is Aulë making a chain - is that his own initiative? I missed the process there)? And why does Melkor suggest that Mairon should go to the ruins of Almaren?
I like the outline but maybe I think the process of kindling the stars should be slow and take more time.
 

Alex Long

Active Member
Mairon takes the link of chain as proof for Melkor that the Valar's minds are set against him. Yes, Aulë has been forging the chain on his own initiative. We even talked about seeing the chain starting a little earlier in the season but in the background almost as an easter egg. Melkor plants the idea of Almaren into Mairon's mind as an example that the Valar's plans don't always turn out as planned. When Mairon has to sneak out, Melkor tells him to take the longer southern route back to Valinor to hide where he has been. As it so happens, Almaren is south of Utumno (as is Cuivienen.)
 

Haakon

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Ok I like the Mairon stuff (maybe it has to be clearer in the outline?).

I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that Aulë should start making a chain earlier and in some kind of background process. I think the mythological way to act is to act in a way that makes a clear example. If Aulë does it without telling anyone, it must be as a choice to go behind the back of Manwë and the others. Aulë already has the dwarves on his record so that would be too much, he can't be a sneak once more. So if he makes a chain it must be done as a statement from his part. He should say, in a meeting with Manwë, "I'm going to make a chain for Melkor". The others don't have to agree. He should say it's for Melkor because there is simply no reason to make a chain for anyone else. If we do it this way, I'd accept it - it's just a matter of timing.
 

Alex Long

Active Member
He's not making the chain in secret. Yavanna knows about it, and Mairon finds out about it too. Aulë tells him willingly; he's not hiding it. Plus, whether everyone knows that Aulë intends for the chain to be used for Melkor specifically is not really (in my opinion) important. Enough has happened since the creation of Arda to warrant the construction of such safeguards. Remember that the chain is not a weapon, and it's not meant to be used as one. Other such non-offensive (in both meanings) safeguards have already been/will soon be constructed on a broader scale by the good guys (The Pelori, Valimar, The Girdle of Melian, the whole of Valinor itself to a lesser extent.) The chain being a more targeted approach is also relevant seeing that individual rebellious Maiar are still "on the loose"- specifically Ungoliant and the Balrogs. I don't think there is any reason why every action that every Valar does need to be approved by Manwë and the others to be deemed right. The creation of the dwarves was an exception and for very different reasons.
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not saying Manwë has to approve. I'm saying Aulë should state the purpose of the chain. And that should be to chain Melkor. Sure, he could make it to chain Ungoliant, but then he should remake it to be able to chain Melkor. He could do that, create a new purpose for the chain. But if he makes it to chain Ungoliant (or Gothmog) - then it is already made, and how does Mairon get the chance then to steal a piece of it? Should Aulë break the chain in the process of remaking?
 

Alex Long

Active Member
The idea was that Aulë always has been making the chain with Melkor in mind. Aulë has distrusted Melkor for a long time (within the narrative.) My point in bringing up Ungoliant and the Balrogs was simply that the other Valar (both "for" and "against" Melkor) have had no reason to straight up asked Aulë what the chain is for- there are plenty of reason for them to rationalize it on their own without asking him. Plus, he is Aulë; he's always making things. This surely isn't the first chain he's ever made during his time in Arda. Chains can be used for other things besides imprisoning Ainu. This is all but a part of the larger point I was trying to make that Aulë isn't being deceptive in making the chain. It's just that very few people have asked him directly about it. This is the context of the scene between Aulë and Mairon. Mairon probably knows that his master has been forging this weird chain for the past x-hundreds of years (magic chains are hard to make, you see,) but only in this episode does he realize what it's true purpose is because he finally asks Aulë what it's purpose is.
 

Alex Long

Active Member
Alternatively, Aulë could begin making the chain after the whole 'dwarves' incident (which is the beginning of this episode,) but then we lose the foreshadowing in earlier episodes. And the more foreshadowing we do, the more smarter we does look like...
 

Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
Alright. Well, when Aulë creates the dwarves he has seen Melkor as an enemy for a while. So why not prepare a chain? He could begin after the failed diplomatic visit to Utumno.
 
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