Session 253 on Boromir's role

[FoolishTook]

I just had a quick thought while listening to episode 253 on the kind of leader that Boromir is and how that would effect what the decisions that he allows himself when it is at odds with leadership. His role is making decisions that keep those who he is responsible for alive during while he is leading them, however, larger overaching choices are not his to make. Let's just think about when Denethor sends Faramir on basically a suicide mission, Faramir can find a way to voice his displeasure with the decision but he cannot change that decision. He will be able to make decisions on the battle field but he can't choose the war itself. I think this is a similar situation that Boromir is in. He can't argue with the leaders, but he can make these smaller (and yet crucial) decisions that ensure they survive (lighting a fire).

I think that his perspective is really crucial to the party and might very well be the reason providence would have him on the party. Someone has to make these kind of calls or see things through his perspective as a particular kind of leader who isn't involved in the more overarching decisions.

I don't think that thoughts of "these guys are idiots" are really part of Boromir's mind set. He's used to his role of keeping his men alive under the orders that he is given. Those thoughts wouldn't be useful to him. He just has to find ways of navigating the politics in order to get what he needs for those that he is responsible for.

 

[Tollers]

Is it fair to summarize your though on Boromir that he understands change of command, and that making suggestions is within those bounds, and therefore, is a good member of the fellowship playing their role appropriately?

 

[Flammifer]

I don't think that Boromir exactly thinks, "these guys are idiots" of Gandalf and Aragorn's leadership. But, I do think he comes close. He probably thinks, "these guys are wrong", at least.

Boromir does not agree with Gandalf (and Elrond) that secrecy is all important. This is clear from the moment he blows his horn when leaving Rivendell. Boromir is convinced that he has successfully followed the Divine Dream, and the riddle of the Dream has been answered. The Company is now proceeding as Divinity wants it to proceed. All will be well. Secrecy is not necessary. God will provide. Secrecy might even be counter productive. Just as Aragorn later decides to challenge Sauron by revealing himself in the Palantir, Boromir might be earlier deducing that challenging Sauron by blowing the horn will only serve to alarm, and confuse the Enemy. Sauron will expect challenges from his newly Ring-enabled opposition. He will not expect what they actually plan.

Boromir is proceeding, confident that Divinity is with him. But, God helps those who help themselves. So, best to be smart, and be prepared, and carry fire wood if attempting to cross high mountain passes in the winter.

Boromir, like Joan of Arc, has heard the voice of God. He has done what God instructed. But, just as Joan of Arc had to don armor, and lead armies, and fight, and win, and not just report what God told her to the French court and the Dauphin, Boromir has to do what he can to ensure that God's plan works. He does it well. He actually causes less controversy and turmoil over leadership than Joan of Arc does (at least so far). But he does save the Hobbits from dying in the snow in the Redhorn Gate.

 

[Flammifer]

I don't think that thoughts of "these guys are idiots" are really part of Boromir's mind set. He's used to his role of keeping his men alive under the orders that he is given. Those thoughts wouldn't be useful to him. He just has to find ways of navigating the politics in order to get what he needs for those that he is responsible for.
[/QUOTE]

Hi FoolishTook,

I think that Boromir's doubts about the leadership of Elrond and Gandalf first really set in when they decided to delay the departure of the Ring from Rivendell for two months after the Council of Elrond.

The reason given (by Gandalf) for the delay is the need for scouts to "scour the lands all round for many long leagues before any move is made." "We can't start until we have found out about the Riders." This rationale is not a lie, but it is misleading. Boromir must think it a grave strategic error. All that was found out about the Riders was found out "at once", or very quickly.

Waiting two months to set out has several grave concerns, which would have been evident to Boromir. Two months would just about give the Riders enough time to walk back to Mordor, and enough time for spies to be sent back to Rivendell (last known location of the Ring - reported as such to Mordor by the Riders). (Luckily for the company, the timing has not been quite long enough for spies to be circling Rivendell. The spies only arrive in Hollin 2 weeks and 2 days after the company leaves Rivendell.) Two months delay also puts the journey of the Company into the depths of winter, and increases the chances of impassable passes over the mountains.

It must seem to Boromir that a wiser course would have been to set out a week or so after the Council, knowing that the Riders are unhorsed, perhaps leaving amongst a number of decoy parties departing in several directions.

The long delay must seem to Boromir to be a very questionable decision by leadership.

I think we can deduce that the real reason for the two month's delay was not to get reports from all the scouts, but specifically the report from Elladan and Elrohir, 'last to return', who "had made a great journey, passing down the Silverlode in a strange country, but of their errand they would not speak to any save to Elrond."

It is right after Elladan and Elrohir return that Elrond announces that the Ring must depart in 7 days.

What was this secret errand? I think it was to find out if it was safe to send the Ring anywhere near Galadriel. Would she seize it and use it against Sauron if it came within her ambit? Elrond knew that she might well do so. He needed her vow that she would not, and that (I think) is what Elladan and Elrohir returned with, and what Elrond and Gandalf were waiting for before deciding which direction to send the Company.

Of course, this reasoning was not revealed to Boromir. So, secrets, lack of trust, absence of transparency, caused Boromir to doubt the competence of leadership even before the Company set out from Rivendell.