Trevor Trumbull
New Member
Gandalf in the Return of the Kings makes a few remarks; the board is set, the Enemy has the move, pawns are as likely to see as much as any etc. Following his lead I've been pondering the remark about Túrin's advice in Nargothrond and that perhaps it is on Gildor's mind in similar terms.
It seems fairly evident that Gildor is playing from a long game perspective with Frodo. He doesn't know enough about Frodo. What is his Purpose, his end? Or about the Enemy. Why are the Nine after Frodo? Or even about his own role, as was discussed last night. So he does the prudent thing. He gives Frodo some sound, if basic, advice, promises to communicate with the other elves, and possibly the Dúnedain. But goes no farther least he make a wrong move.
Túrin in Nargothrond I think is much more complex. I don't mean that Gildor had it easy, he clearly didn't, but that perhaps it is not so easy to compare his choice with Túrin. Gildor played the long game and was right in doing so. Túrin, it seems clear, is playing the short game. Is Túrin right in doing so? Gwindor's statement "It is a prophecy among us that one day a messenger from Middle Earth will come through the shadows to Valinor, and Manwë will hear, and Mandos relent." Is an interesting one. If we know the First Age material well it is easy to camp there. Eärendil is coming, all they have to do is hold out a little longer.
Of course if you are there in Nargothrond it is a completely different thing. Eärendil has not been born yet, Tuor has not even reached Gondolin yet. If I'm a human there hearing Gwindor my first questions is "Great how long until that happens? Why kind of time frame are we talking about here? Years? Decades? Whole generations of Men?" Húrin makes a statement in Gondolin to the effect of "Your elves can sit and wait for the right time to go to battle. Men cannot." If he is right in saying that, and I think he is, that Túrin is right, at least in part, when he says similar things in Nargothrond.
Preserving a remnant of the Eldar and the Edain is good, it is a good end. But is sitting there in secrecy while people, and if you are Túrin then your people, are being slaughtered and enslaved by the Enemy a good means to achieve that good end? If secrecy is not really an option, as Túrin says, then perhaps all that is left to do is decided what to do with the time you have left.
Let us not forget Gildor's remark that all courses may run ill is equally true here. Nargothrond's doom had long ago been deemed. Is Túrin to blame for its fall, is he culpable? Yes. But so are the other elves. If the giving of advice is dangerous then so to is the receiving, or ignoring, of it.
It seems fairly evident that Gildor is playing from a long game perspective with Frodo. He doesn't know enough about Frodo. What is his Purpose, his end? Or about the Enemy. Why are the Nine after Frodo? Or even about his own role, as was discussed last night. So he does the prudent thing. He gives Frodo some sound, if basic, advice, promises to communicate with the other elves, and possibly the Dúnedain. But goes no farther least he make a wrong move.
Túrin in Nargothrond I think is much more complex. I don't mean that Gildor had it easy, he clearly didn't, but that perhaps it is not so easy to compare his choice with Túrin. Gildor played the long game and was right in doing so. Túrin, it seems clear, is playing the short game. Is Túrin right in doing so? Gwindor's statement "It is a prophecy among us that one day a messenger from Middle Earth will come through the shadows to Valinor, and Manwë will hear, and Mandos relent." Is an interesting one. If we know the First Age material well it is easy to camp there. Eärendil is coming, all they have to do is hold out a little longer.
Of course if you are there in Nargothrond it is a completely different thing. Eärendil has not been born yet, Tuor has not even reached Gondolin yet. If I'm a human there hearing Gwindor my first questions is "Great how long until that happens? Why kind of time frame are we talking about here? Years? Decades? Whole generations of Men?" Húrin makes a statement in Gondolin to the effect of "Your elves can sit and wait for the right time to go to battle. Men cannot." If he is right in saying that, and I think he is, that Túrin is right, at least in part, when he says similar things in Nargothrond.
Preserving a remnant of the Eldar and the Edain is good, it is a good end. But is sitting there in secrecy while people, and if you are Túrin then your people, are being slaughtered and enslaved by the Enemy a good means to achieve that good end? If secrecy is not really an option, as Túrin says, then perhaps all that is left to do is decided what to do with the time you have left.
Let us not forget Gildor's remark that all courses may run ill is equally true here. Nargothrond's doom had long ago been deemed. Is Túrin to blame for its fall, is he culpable? Yes. But so are the other elves. If the giving of advice is dangerous then so to is the receiving, or ignoring, of it.