"The Elves"

Jedi Master Tessa

New Member
I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but I haven't seen it here (or anywhere else), and it always annoys me when I read the conversation between Lindir and Bilbo. Why does Tolkien credit lines of dialogue to "the Elves"? Specifically: "'Not too tiring for you,' the Elves answered laughing. 'You know you are never tired of reciting your own verses. But really we cannot answer your question at one hearing!'" The next line, for reference, is "said the Elf" and the third is "laughed Lindir", so this is the only one where multiple people seem to be speaking.

I might think this was a mistake, but we also get it with Gildor's company: "'Come!' the Elves called to the hobbits. 'Come! Now is the time for speech and merriment!'" and "'This is poor fare,' they said to the hobbits; 'for we are lodging in the greenwood far from our halls. If ever you are our guests at home, we will treat you better.'" (The only time I see this happening in Lothlorien is when elves are singing about Gandalf, where I assume it's meant literally and multiple elves are actually singing together, but then again, it wouldn't happen in regular conversation because Haldir is the only one out of of the original group of elves the Fellowship meets who can speak Westron. Of course, we're not at Lothlorien yet, so we aren't supposed to talk about it.)

I always read this as meaning that the elves are speaking at the same time or finishing each other's sentences. That might make sense for the "speech and merriment" bit, maybe even the "This is poor fare" line if several elves repeated the same sentiments. But surely they didn't say the exact same thing every time. And it doesn't explain the line said to Bilbo, which was clearly spoken by only one elf, and probably Lindir, who has already been named. The other thing I've thought of is that Frodo might be having trouble telling the elves apart and sort of lumps them all together, but that doesn't seem to be true, considering that he can easily tell that Arwen and Elrond are related by their appearances, and it's not like he's unfamiliar with elves. And if Bilbo addresses "Lindir", then anyone can guess that Lindir will be the one to answer him, whether or not you know who that is, so Frodo doesn't have an excuse. So how am I supposed to envision these conversations happening?
 
Hi Jedi,

I have always assumed that when the narrator (presumably Frodo) refers dialogue to 'The Elves', it is because he is not sure which Elves are speaking.

In this case there are three comments from 'The Elves'; "Not too tiring for you", "You know you are never tired of reciting your own verses", "but really we cannot answer your question at one hearing". All three might have been said by different speakers. The identity of those speakers might have been unknown to the narrator, so he just attributed the statements to 'The Elves'.

When the narrator then mentions "The Elf", it is clear that he means Lindir.
 
Hi Jedi,

I have always assumed that when the narrator (presumably Frodo) refers dialogue to 'The Elves', it is because he is not sure which Elves are speaking.

In this case there are three comments from 'The Elves'; "Not too tiring for you", "You know you are never tired of reciting your own verses", "but really we cannot answer your question at one hearing". All three might have been said by different speakers. The identity of those speakers might have been unknown to the narrator, so he just attributed the statements to 'The Elves'.

When the narrator then mentions "The Elf", it is clear that he means Lindir.
An expansion of this: Perhaps the comments were made by multiple speakers delivered as overlapping speech, potentially with some repetition and sentiments echoed. This might be hard to represent in written speech without confusing the imagined reader, and so the author (be it Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, or another) writes as plural speakers delivering a coherent (co-ordinated?) response.

Especially with Gildor's company, it may be that several separate conversations were condensed to provide the reader the general sense of the conversations without (boring) repetition to capture everything.
 
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