The Emptiness of the Ringwraiths and the Fullness of Frodo

Blad The Inspirer

New Member
During this week's discussion of the Ringwraiths as empty vessels that are filled with Sauron's will, I was immediately reminded of Gandalf's thoughts regarding Frodo in "Many Meetings":
"He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can."

What is this light with which Gandalf thinks Frodo may be filled? Is it reasonable to think that any mortal with a ring of power will eventually become a vessel, empty or otherwise? If so, what are the options for the filling?

Based on this week's lesson, I would guess that Frodo's glass is filled with his own Fea. Does that mean the Ringwraiths have lost theirs?

I would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
During this week's discussion of the Ringwraiths as empty vessels that are filled with Sauron's will, I was immediately reminded of Gandalf's thoughts regarding Frodo in "Many Meetings":
"He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can."

What is this light with which Gandalf thinks Frodo may be filled? Is it reasonable to think that any mortal with a ring of power will eventually become a vessel, empty or otherwise? If so, what are the options for the filling?

Based on this week's lesson, I would guess that Frodo's glass is filled with his own Fea. Does that mean the Ringwraiths have lost theirs?

I would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
You mean their fëa being bound to their rings and not to their bodies anymore? And those rings will not release them, like a body would? Interesting. Have think about it.
 

Rachel Port

Well-Known Member
We don't know the powers of the rings that went to Men. We are assuming that they are the same as the One Ring, but we don't know that. One thing we know so far is that death doesn't come to mortals, at least not for a few thousand years, and that eventually the men become wraiths. How long did that take? Remember, Gollum had the One Ring for several hundred years and is not a wraith. Frodo didn't come close to being a wraith because of the Ring; it was the wound from the morgul knife. Did it take the nine men a thousand years to become wraiths?

I'm with Anthony - I think the light Gandalf foresees is a gift of Iluvatar.

And I find Odola's idea that the fear of the Ringwraiths become connected to their rings instead of their bodies fascinating. But would their souls then be kept by Sauron, if he has their rings? Can their bodies exist in the spirit world without souls?
 

Odola

Well-Known Member
We don't know the powers of the rings that went to Men. We are assuming that they are the same as the One Ring, but we don't know that. One thing we know so far is that death doesn't come to mortals, at least not for a few thousand years, and that eventually the men become wraiths. How long did that take? Remember, Gollum had the One Ring for several hundred years and is not a wraith. Frodo didn't come close to being a wraith because of the Ring; it was the wound from the morgul knife. Did it take the nine men a thousand years to become wraiths?

I'm with Anthony - I think the light Gandalf foresees is a gift of Iluvatar.

And I find Odola's idea that the fear of the Ringwraiths become connected to their rings instead of their bodies fascinating. But would their souls then be kept by Sauron, if he has their rings? Can their bodies exist in the spirit world without souls?
If you consider the concept of the trifold human nature - "body - spirit - soul" - it could be feasible. It would be only their individual "lifeforce" that is roaming about.
 
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