Paxpelicanus
New Member
Corey,
After months of working to catch up, last week’s episode 131 was the first one I was finally able to listen to live. It was fascinating to experience this class that I’ve come to love in a very different manner regarding time. I felt a palpable sense of excitement knowing that I was hearing every word at the exact same time that other participants were.
Interestingly enough, I was struck in the discussion by the way in which characters experience time in the discussion of the Council in quite different ways. Briefly, it’s clear that Elrond’s perspective is rooted in a far deeper sense of the past (first, second, and third age ) which enables him to focus his attention on what must be done in the future (the destruction of the ring and the return of the king). He is able to lead the discussion of deeming the doom because he knows the larger context of the past. It reminds me of a saying by a beloved church historian: “ Our memories become the mentors of our hopes.” (John Kuykendall).
It would be tempting to contrast Elrond’s perspective with that of Boromir’s because Boromir seems to be much more focused on the present moment. In his interruption, which you covered in class, his entire focus seems to be on the current events of what is presently happening in Gondor. While each of his statements are factually true in the moment, his perspective is missing the larger context of decline that Elrond names because the scope of Elrond’s vision is so much wider. Boromir is less interested in deeming a doom and more interested in deeming deeds currently being done.
I say it’s tempting to contrast Elrond with Boromir, because I’m not sure that the text is actually inviting that comparison. Rather, I think the real contrast is between Boromir‘s response to Elrond’s story and Frodo‘s response. Their interruptions are quite different as it relates to how their perspective is affected by Elrond’s wider temporal scope. Whereas Boromir interrupts with a defense of the present situation, Frodo interupts with an exclamation of wonder. As you noted in a previous class, even though he is aware intellectually of how old Elrond is, he is still caught in amazement when confronted with the reality of speaking face-to-face with someone who’s been around that long.
I suspect (and this may be me reading more into the text than is there) that this contrast is not only intentional but also pedagogical. Boromir‘s perspective, and how it eventually ends, could be read as a warning for those who would limit their viewpoint to merely contemporaneous events and ignore the larger teachings of history. Many characters face the temptation of the present presence of the ring, but the ones who are able to overcome that temptation all have a larger historical perspective (Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, and Faramir). Without the deep roots in the full story of past ages, the present desire to grasp and claim the ring for oneself (Gollum out of an addictive desire or Boromir out of a desire to weaponize) is overwhelming. As someone who’s entire career was devoted to an appreciation of the stories of the past, might Tolkien be subtly showing his critique of those whose focus is only on the present moment. Could Frodo’s interruption (particularly when contrasted with Boromir’s) be an invitation for us all to encounter the teachings of history with a sense of excitement and wonder?
Anyway, glad to be caught up and listening live from here on.
After months of working to catch up, last week’s episode 131 was the first one I was finally able to listen to live. It was fascinating to experience this class that I’ve come to love in a very different manner regarding time. I felt a palpable sense of excitement knowing that I was hearing every word at the exact same time that other participants were.
Interestingly enough, I was struck in the discussion by the way in which characters experience time in the discussion of the Council in quite different ways. Briefly, it’s clear that Elrond’s perspective is rooted in a far deeper sense of the past (first, second, and third age ) which enables him to focus his attention on what must be done in the future (the destruction of the ring and the return of the king). He is able to lead the discussion of deeming the doom because he knows the larger context of the past. It reminds me of a saying by a beloved church historian: “ Our memories become the mentors of our hopes.” (John Kuykendall).
It would be tempting to contrast Elrond’s perspective with that of Boromir’s because Boromir seems to be much more focused on the present moment. In his interruption, which you covered in class, his entire focus seems to be on the current events of what is presently happening in Gondor. While each of his statements are factually true in the moment, his perspective is missing the larger context of decline that Elrond names because the scope of Elrond’s vision is so much wider. Boromir is less interested in deeming a doom and more interested in deeming deeds currently being done.
I say it’s tempting to contrast Elrond with Boromir, because I’m not sure that the text is actually inviting that comparison. Rather, I think the real contrast is between Boromir‘s response to Elrond’s story and Frodo‘s response. Their interruptions are quite different as it relates to how their perspective is affected by Elrond’s wider temporal scope. Whereas Boromir interrupts with a defense of the present situation, Frodo interupts with an exclamation of wonder. As you noted in a previous class, even though he is aware intellectually of how old Elrond is, he is still caught in amazement when confronted with the reality of speaking face-to-face with someone who’s been around that long.
I suspect (and this may be me reading more into the text than is there) that this contrast is not only intentional but also pedagogical. Boromir‘s perspective, and how it eventually ends, could be read as a warning for those who would limit their viewpoint to merely contemporaneous events and ignore the larger teachings of history. Many characters face the temptation of the present presence of the ring, but the ones who are able to overcome that temptation all have a larger historical perspective (Gandalf, Galadriel, Aragorn, and Faramir). Without the deep roots in the full story of past ages, the present desire to grasp and claim the ring for oneself (Gollum out of an addictive desire or Boromir out of a desire to weaponize) is overwhelming. As someone who’s entire career was devoted to an appreciation of the stories of the past, might Tolkien be subtly showing his critique of those whose focus is only on the present moment. Could Frodo’s interruption (particularly when contrasted with Boromir’s) be an invitation for us all to encounter the teachings of history with a sense of excitement and wonder?
Anyway, glad to be caught up and listening live from here on.
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