Flammifer
Well-Known Member
In the last class, there was a discussion about the in-frame translation between Westron and English. The class looked at the word ‘shrouded’, and wondered whether the original Westron word had the same associations with the coverings for the dead.
Earlier, the class had looked at the word ‘fling’, and wondered if this represented Gimli trying to underplay, or diminish in some way, the blizzard assault of Caradhras.
‘Fling’ means: “to throw, cast, or hurl with force or violence”. I’m not sure why this word would seem to underplay Caradhras. What other translations (of the presumed Westron original) would be more forceful? ‘Toss’? ‘Chuck’? ‘Lob’? ‘Cast’? ‘Throw’? ‘Hurl’? Of these, only ‘Hurl’ might possibly be a stronger and more forceful alternative.
Thinking that ‘Fling’ is a diminishment of Caradhras’ assault might be influenced by the usage of ‘Fling’ for a short, spontaneous, affair (usually sexual). Is this a modern usage? Would it have been the usage JRRT as translator was thinking of?
Thinking of the underlying implications of the various words JRRT might have used to translate whatever Gimli’s Westron word was, had ‘Cast’ been used, this might imply less violence but more Magic, due to the association with ‘casting spells’. If the word ‘Hurl’ had been chosen, this might imply as much or more violence, but with more directed and aimed intent. However, ‘Fling’ might have been chosen due to another one of its secondary definitions: “a short period of wild behavior”. (e.g. “I’m going skydiving. One last fling before I get too old.”)
If it was this connotation that prompted JRRT to use ‘Fling’ as the translation, then it might be that he was intimating that the assault could be simply Caradhras the Cruel, flipping a tantrum, or resisting the trespass of alien magic (the Ring?) into his domain, rather than planned action on the instruction, or under the influence of Sauron?
Earlier, the class had looked at the word ‘fling’, and wondered if this represented Gimli trying to underplay, or diminish in some way, the blizzard assault of Caradhras.
‘Fling’ means: “to throw, cast, or hurl with force or violence”. I’m not sure why this word would seem to underplay Caradhras. What other translations (of the presumed Westron original) would be more forceful? ‘Toss’? ‘Chuck’? ‘Lob’? ‘Cast’? ‘Throw’? ‘Hurl’? Of these, only ‘Hurl’ might possibly be a stronger and more forceful alternative.
Thinking that ‘Fling’ is a diminishment of Caradhras’ assault might be influenced by the usage of ‘Fling’ for a short, spontaneous, affair (usually sexual). Is this a modern usage? Would it have been the usage JRRT as translator was thinking of?
Thinking of the underlying implications of the various words JRRT might have used to translate whatever Gimli’s Westron word was, had ‘Cast’ been used, this might imply less violence but more Magic, due to the association with ‘casting spells’. If the word ‘Hurl’ had been chosen, this might imply as much or more violence, but with more directed and aimed intent. However, ‘Fling’ might have been chosen due to another one of its secondary definitions: “a short period of wild behavior”. (e.g. “I’m going skydiving. One last fling before I get too old.”)
If it was this connotation that prompted JRRT to use ‘Fling’ as the translation, then it might be that he was intimating that the assault could be simply Caradhras the Cruel, flipping a tantrum, or resisting the trespass of alien magic (the Ring?) into his domain, rather than planned action on the instruction, or under the influence of Sauron?