Assessing Boromir’s proposed routes which avoid Moria:

Flammifer

Flammifer

Well-Known Member
The distances of the three routes from where they are to Minas Tirith are roughly:

  • Route 1: Through Moria, down the east side of the Misty Mountains and the east side of Fangorn Forest, into the East Emnet of Rohan, thence to Minas Tirith = 580 miles
  • Route 2: Down the west side of the Misty Mountains to the Gap of Rohan, thence through Rohan to Minas Tirith = 600 miles
  • Route 3: West to Tharbad, south through Enedwaith (skirting around Dunland), crossing the Isen well downstream from the Gap of Rohan, into far western Gondor, then through Gondor to Minas Tirith = 880 miles.
Some of Boromir’s assumptions:

  • “Amateur Generals study tactics – Professionals study logistics.”
  • The nearest points of resupply are either in Rohan or in Gondor (Boromir does not know about Lothlorien)
  • The nearest points of improved transportation (horses) are either in Rohan or Gondor (Boromir does not know about the possibility of the provision of canoes in Lothlorien).
  • The nearest points of safety and allies are either in Rohan or Gondor.
  • The distance to re-supply, safety, and improved transport on the three routes is: Route 1: 280 miles to the East Emnet of Rohan; Route 2: 300 miles to the Fords of Isen; Route 3 480 miles to Gondor at the western end of the White Mountains. If the Company maintains their (very slow) rate of progress so far (170 miles in 17 days – or 10 miles/day) then time to safety (and horses) is: Route 1 – 28 days. Route 2 – 30 days. Route 3: – 48 days. Assuming they can then acquire horses on all three routes, and proceed at 25 miles/day, Routes 1 & 2 would both take a further 12 days, while Route 3 would take a further 16 days. Route 3 would take 24 days longer altogether than Route 1. 64 days in all. “How do you calculate that on Route 3, ‘we might spend a year on such a journey’, Gandalf? How time critical exactly do you think we might be?”
  • We don't know the state of the Company's supplies, but I assume that Boromir had a plan for supplies on the longest route (or he would not have suggested it).
  • (I assume that Boromir had studied all available maps – in Gondor and Rivendell.)

Some other assumptions about Boromir:

  • I don’t think that Boromir is particularly concerned about the route through Moria. He has heard that it is ‘ill omened’ but does he know much about it, or of any real dangers? Anyway, Boromir thinks that God is with him (talks to him in dreams) so he does not have much worry about any particular route. He mostly just wants to stop Gandalf and Aragorn quarrelling and stop Aragorn lowering morale. He also thinks there are possible alternative routes that are not even being considered.

  • I don’t think that Boromir ignored Gandalf’s report on Saruman. He heard Gandalf say that “Wolves and orcs were housed in Isengard, for Saruman was mustering a great force on his own account, in rivalry of Sauron and not in his service yet.” He heard from Gandalf that Saruman coveted the Ring. I also believe that Boromir would have been aware of the enmity between the Dunlendings and the Rohirrim. He had travelled north through Dunland without problem, but that had been back in August, 4-5 months ago. He probably notes both Dunland and Isengard as potential threats. That is why he adds his second alternate route, which is much longer, but avoids both those possible dangers.


  • What Boromir wants, apart from chilling the downers from Aragorn, I think, is a proper military planning session to assess the opportunities and risks of all the possible routes, so a rational decision can be reached. What exactly are the dangers of Moria? How dangerous is Saruman? If his forces are still in Isengard could we come down the western side of the mountains and be across the Gap of Rohan and linked up with allies before he can react? If the Dunlendings have become hostile, could we discover that early and divert around Dunland to Western Gondor?
Boromir does not get the proper military planning session which he might have wanted. He does, however, get Gandalf’s view of the risks and concerns about his two alternate routes. Boromir suggests that those risks and concerns might apply to the route through Moria as well, “We do not know what he expects. He may watch all roads, likely and unlikely. In that case to enter Moria would be to walk into a trap.” Gandalf does not really address this point of Boromir’s instead he deflects, “You speak of what you do not know, when you liken Moria to the stronghold of Sauron.”

Boromir, having started, I think, suggesting alternate routes to stop dissension in the leadership, and to get a proper and logical assessment of options, ends up causing a breakdown in leadership. Gandalf starts it by appealing to his leadership position, instead of to logic and evaluation and discussion, by saying, “But the question is: who will follow me if I lead you there?”

Suddenly, Gandalf has created a vote instead of making a leadership decision. It is then that Boromir abandons his hitherto very diplomatic approach to the leadership of the Company. “I will not go! Not unless the vote of the whole company is against me!”

I think that Boromir’s revolt is more against the leadership style being displayed, than against the actual route through Moria (though he probably has a mild preference so far for one of the other routes).

Frodo saves the company from a breakdown in leadership by proposing to postpone the vote until having slept on it. Which is then saved again by hearing the howling of the Wolves, which prompts Boromir to agree that Moria, as fast as possible, is the safest option, and only choice. “How far is Moria?” asked Boromir.
 
Last edited:
Agree completely. I have wondered about it too when first-time reading - the route via Gondor never seemed thaaat much longer on the map in proportion to the one they were qctually planning to takeg. And then they stayed in Lotholorien for about a month? If they kept moving South with 1-2 restdays in regular intervals, and they could have got a ship to sail along the coast and sail up the river with a proper sail ship and not a canoe = they might wll have actually had arrived faster in the end...
 
I don't know how common or available ships are along the far west coast of Gondor. Boromir probably knows.

If a ship could reliably be found near the mouth of the River Lefnui, then travel by horse from the Gondor border to there would be about 125 miles and take 5 days, and travel by ship to Minas Tirith would be about 560 miles and take 5 days. That would reduce Route 3 travel time by 6 days to a total of 58 days. Only 18 days longer than the route through Moria (as Boromir would have calculated it - not knowing about the provision of canoes in Lothlorien, which greatly sped the trip down the Anduin.)

Of course, if Boromir had got the detailed military and logistics route planning session, which I think he wanted, Gandalf might have revealed the re-supply opportunity in Lothlorien, and the canoe possibility. That might have inclined Boromir to favor the Moria route (Riskier but faster?). It only takes the Company 44 days to travel from where they are to Parth Galen - and that includes 31 days in Lorien - so actual travel time is only 13 days. From Parth Galen to Minas Tirith should take about say 2 days on foot before finding Rohirrim in the Eastfold and then say 6 days by horse to Minas Tirith. 21 travel days by the Moria route as opposed to Boromir's reasonable estimate of 28 days. The canoes, both by travelling faster, and by travelling more hours per day, shaved a week off the travel time on the Moria route.

Of course, If the company planned to spend a month in Lorien, the journey through Moria would take an elapsed time of 52 days, and the (safer?) route through western Gondor, if ships were an option, would only take 6 days longer (assuming no stop-overs).
 
Last edited:
As for the suggestion in the class, that Boromir does not like the route through Moria because it does not lead as inevitably through Minas Tirith as the other routes do. I do not think this is a logical interpretation.

Boromir does not know that the Company might stop in Lothlorien. He does not know that Lothlorien can provide canoes. As far as Boromir knows, the route from the far side of Moria must lead down the right bank of the Anduin, into the East Emnet of Rohan, and thence to Minas Tirith. The company, as far as Boromir knows, would have no way to cross the Anduin upstream from Minas Tirith.
 
Flammifer said:
Boromir does not know that the Company might stop in Lothlorien. He does not know that Lothlorien can provide canoes. As far as Boromir knows, the route from the far side of Moria must lead down the right bank of the Anduin, into the East Emnet of Rohan, and thence to Minas Tirith. The company, as far as Boromir knows, would have no way to cross the Anduin upstream from Minas Tirith.
Click to expand...

But Boromir knows Fangorn is dangerous and to be avoided and that the swampy Mount of Entwash forces a detour West into Rohan away from Anduin anyway. And it would be favourable for the hobbits to spend a part of their journey aboard a ship and not walking. Imho both routes are comparably unpleasant while the Gondor one seems safer and as Boromir will himself end up dead on the Moria route for sure for him Gandalf's route ends up to be never-ending - he himself never arrives. So Gandalf's opinion about the Gondor route taking so much longer is actually unsupportable no matter how one looks at it... If the additional few days do not matter - and they seem not as shown it being no problem to spend a whole month in Lothlorien - then the Gondor route would be the best to take.

Dunland fights Rohan but neither of them is a Rohir, most have no connection to Rohan as yet and Boromir being the son of the ruler of Gondor would be unwise to mess with. No reason why Dunlandings should go after some random travellers who have no gooda but instead some capable fighters among them.

About horses - they are 4 full grown riders against 5 people who need a full grown companion rider = 4 hobbits and a dwarf. So just getting horses is difficult, they would need one additional full grown rider, too...
 
Last edited:
Hi Odola,

There is a perfectly good route from the east gate of Moria to Minas Tirith which avoids Lorien, Fangorn, and the mouths of the Entwash. The Company would stay east of Fangorn, and considerably west of the Anduin.

Dunland becomes more dangerous if they might have fallen under the influence of Saruman. I don't think Boromir knows how dangerous Dunland might be, but, I think he would consider it a risk.

Gimli and the Hobbits might get ponies or small horses. At only 25 miles/day travelled, they should be fine.

At the time of the discussion, I don't think Boromir thinks he has enough information to evaluate all the benefits and concerns of the different routes to make the best decision. I don't think he has a preferred route himself. He just wants to consider all the options. That is why he would like a proper military logistics planning session, to pool information, and consider pros and cons.
 
Boromir did travel the Greenway and the remains of Tharbad... i see no way he would not to have crossed Dunland!
 
Hi Haerangil,

Yes, Boromir crossed Dunland on his search for Imladris. But that was back in early August (probably). From Gandalf's report on Saruman, Boromir is probably aware of a potential risk that Saruman's influence might have grown in Dunland since then. The potential route through southern Gondor would allow for a circuit around Dunland to the west, mitigating any potential Dunland risk.
 
Well... we do not know how far into the Enedhwaith or Minhiriath Sarumans hand could reach, and neither did Boromir. I still think the coasts of Gondor were not safe because of the Corsair threat. However i once did play through several alternative scenarios... in my scenario however the Lefnui vale was not in reach because of the Adornlands half-rohirric nobility (Frecas family) , which was allied to Saruman and Dunland.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top