Blue Wizards

JJ48

Active Member
In the discussion tonight, the topic of the Blue Wizards was brought up. Though it sounds like they probably won't appear yet, (and won't get their full story told for many seasons yet), it did get me wondering what that story is. I think this is important to at least think about, as it could potentially affect other frame stories or even main-story foreshadowing. Following is an overview of an idea I would like to propose. Feel free to critique it or offer alternate suggestions.

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Alatar was chosen to be on of the Istari, and took his friend Pallando with him. They traveled to the East with Saruman to help Men out there, but stayed behind when Saruman returned West. They believed that Sauron's influence persisted, and meant to hinder him. Alatar believed the best way to do this was through strength enough to beat Sauron's forces, while Pallando thought encouraging the hearts of Men for endurance was better.

Ultimately, Alatar began training Men in magic and secret rituals in the hopes of forging a mighty army. Pallando reluctantly agreed to help in the hopes of being able to help guide Alatar's efforts and keep him on-mission. They eventually controlled a small-yet-powerful region within Rhûn, hereafter known as Blue Rhûn.

When Sauron began collecting the Easterlings once more, he decided he'd have to deal with Blue Rhûn. The Dark Lord sent a mighty host toward Blue Rhûn, and Alatar pulled his forces back to his central fortress, hoping to lure the enemy into an undesirable position. Mordor's forces instead started attacking outlying villages and settlements.

As the war continued, some of the Men in Alatar's army became afraid for what would happen to their homes; and there was talk of going out to defend the villages themselves, or even switching to Sauron's side if he would only spare their families! The concern was brought to Pallando in the hopes that he would be able to convince Alatar to act. Pallando pleaded with Alatar, but the latter calmly explained that facing the enemy on open ground would surely lose them more Men than would desertion, and that their only hope of maintaining and eventually expanding Blue Rhûn was to patiently wait for the proper moment to strike.

The argument went back and forth, growing more and more heated on both sides. At last, Pallando claimed that Alatar now cared nothing for the people of Middle-earth except as a means to an end, and said that the Istari were supposed to free the people from Sauron, not replace him. At this, Alatar grew furious and struck Pallando. The former nearly lept upon the latter to slay him, but ultimately mastered himself. He renounced his friendship and told Pallando to leave, saying that if ever they met again, there would be death.

Pallando left and took what Men would follow him to face the enemy head-on. At first, they appeared to have success, and drove back the forces of Mordor. It was only in appearance, though, and from his scouts' reports, Alatar realized Pallando was being drawn into a trap. Without consideration, Alatar gathered his forces and went to Pallando's aid. By the time they arrived, Pallando's forces were surrounded, and Pallando had been injured. Enraged, Alatar charged the enemy's ranks, leading his army.

They utterly routed the forces of Mordor, and countless orcs and evil Men were slain; most by Alatar himself, whom none of the enemy could withstand. However, Alatar was mortally wounded, and had Pallando brought to him. Alatar repented his harsh words, and named Pallando his successor. Pallando wept as he forgave his friend; who then smiled weakly, and lived no more. A mist rose from Alatar's body, and started to spread, directionless. But then, a warm breeze enveloped the mist, and gathered it toward the West.

Pallando took up leadership of Blue Rhûn, and many who had deserted or talked of deserting repented, and were welcomed back. And Blue Rhûn remained ever after a thorn in Sauron's side.
 
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Haerangil

Well-Known Member
People always think in categories of mighty armies...

I'd like to point out that the vast majority of middle-earth probably was Sauron's donain... the Westlands are a small exception. We do not know exactly how Saurons Domain looked like, though the speech os Saurons mouth may give us an impression...

It takes a lot of effort to hold up such a vast realm... was there rebellion and resistance? Certainly! We hear at least of one war where Haradrim, Wainriders and men of Khand fought againtst each other... more may have happened in more distand lands.

But all in all...
i don't know. What i read about Pallando and Alatar/Romestamo and Morinehtar or Aragorns jouneys really sounds much like Undercover work rather than creating vast empires and armies...
They certainly may have used cults and magic traditions to undermine Saurons clergy and support rebel tribes here and there.

Theres been a lot of fanfic written on the Blue Wizards ... but so far nothing really satisfied me.
 

JJ48

Active Member
I'm not sure that a small region counts as a "vast empire". My motivation for suggesting military power was to contrast with Saruman. Whereas Saruman seemingly started out right and then fell in his lust for power, I felt the Blues (Alatar in particular) may have gone down the wrong path pretty quickly, but ended up reconciled and forgiven. Maybe it would have been better if, at the end, I'd suggested Pallando dissolve the pseudo-kingdom and pursue the methods they should have been using all along.

Though, it's possible that by suggesting a particular scenario, I'm really just confusing the issue. Ultimately, what I'd like to do is to discuss and possibly even establish the story and state of the Blues. I know we won't be getting to their full story for years yet, but if it's even possible that they may interact with the frame narratives at all, it's important to at least know a little bit about them. I guess to start with, do you have any ideas for the following questions:

What is the physical status of the Blues by the end of the Third Age? (Both alive, both dead, one of each)

Have the Blues remained together during their careers, or have they gone separate ways?

Where did the Blues end up, and where have they traveled?

Were the Blues successful in hindering Sauron?

What is the moral status of the Blues by the end of the Third Age? (Both uncorrupted, both fallen, one of each)
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Well... if they failed, then i think it must have been in a way that totally differs from Radagasts or Sarumans path... i mean, they could have done both, drawn away many of the enemies resources and yet still have failed in their spiritual mission...
the so called magical cults or traditions they created may have played their role in that sucess/failiure...

I just think if one wants to go that path, they need a really good story... to believably and rationally explain how and why they had both, some sucess and some leaving their true path.
 

JJ48

Active Member
I just think if one wants to go that path, they need a really good story... to believably and rationally explain how and why they had both, some sucess and some leaving their true path.
And that's what we're trying to establish here.
 

JJ48

Active Member
Well, how much story is too much story? Where do we draw the line where the Frame eclipses the main story?
This wouldn't be the Frame, or even necessarily in the Frame. Rather, I think we need the basic story of the Blue Wizards so that if they appear or are mentioned in the frame, they can at least be portrayed consistently with their eventual story.
 

Kathrin

Active Member
Would there be a place for them in the second age maybe? Where you have the heavy focus on the humans in Numénor on the one hand, and the humans staying in middle earth, and in the extreme under the influence of our baddies, in Rhûn and Harad? Might be worth looking at other humans than just Numénoreans.. and the blue wizards could be a power in those conflicts.
 

Kathrin

Active Member
Palando&Alatar.jpg

I did this painting years ago, but still, I feel like they're running around, maybe getting mixed up in local conflicts & having adventures. Maybe they got close to corruption by Sauron, maybe not, but I feel in the end they did a similar thing as Gandalf, but on a smaller scale, more helping restistance movements against Sauron rather than going and bringing him down. It might also be interesting to see behind the Scenes at the Mordor warmachine, and how they weren't able to just flood middle earth with their "recruited" forces, because they're dominion of the east didn't end up as complete as they'd've liked.
 

JJ48

Active Member
Would there be a place for them in the second age maybe? Where you have the heavy focus on the humans in Numénor on the one hand, and the humans staying in middle earth, and in the extreme under the influence of our baddies, in Rhûn and Harad? Might be worth looking at other humans than just Numénoreans.. and the blue wizards could be a power in those conflicts.
The Blue Wizards were Istari, and they didn't come over to Middle-earth until the Third Age.
 

Kathrin

Active Member
ah wait i always get that mixed up, sorry. but still, they would be dealing with a big part of the humans that are a counterpoint to the numenoreans. it would just be post numenor.
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
The Blue Wizards were Istari, and they didn't come over to Middle-earth until the Third Age.
Well JRRT contradicts himself with this... in one account all of the Istari came in the third age ca. 1000, in another account he states the two blue wizards already arrived in the second age...
 

Haerangil

Well-Known Member
Which do we want? When we come to write second age storylines we still can decide if we wish to put Blue wizards to them or not..
 

Kathrin

Active Member
Ah, good so I didn't just invent that. But I didn't specifically remember the difference between those 2 accounts.

For me the creation of the Rings and Sauron's career as Annatar mark a new period of the battle for Beleriand, it's now fewer giant battles, less direct, more diplomacy, manipulation and corruption. So I feel like the Istari fit in well as a first small avantgarde against that tendency. Also in the books me it just always struck me like had been around then, idk.

(I also tend towards that later account of the Istari as it doesn't insist on everyone but Gandalf failing their mission.)
 
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