Counsellors at the Council

[Ardent Crayon]

A question for the start of The Council: Elrond introduces Frodo to “several other counsellors of Elrond’s household, of whom Erestor was the chief...” before moving on to name others from outside Rivendell. This implies other members of Elrond’s house are present but are not named, or at least the narrator doesn’t name them for the reader. Is this an oversight, or are the anonymous counsellors simply mentioned to provide a sense of scale to what would otherwise be a fairly small meeting? It’s almost as if Elrond said “Here is Erestor, one of my most trusted advisors, and next to him are some other guys who aren’t very important. They’re just lackeys and seat-fillers really. I don’t even remember their names, to be honest. Lavafloss? Advil? Orlandoblüm? Eh, never mind.”

 

[Anthony Lawther]

One could imagine Erestor as lead counsel with a team of unnamed junior counsellors carrying files and fetching hot beverages, then during councils hastily looking up precedents and scribbling notes.

More seriously though, Erestor is obviously well respected and they may have indeed been introduced by Elrond as "My regular counsellors; Erestor is their chief" without any intentions of taking any more of the mortals precious time with a long list of names of folks they'll likely never meet again.

Or they were all introduced by name and the narrator lost track of all these Elves, and so only noted the distinguishable players. I guess they didn't take minutes.

 

[Flammifer]

Glorfindel is the other member of Elrond's household who is named as being at the council of Elrond (and who is quoted) besides Erestor.

I agree, that there are other members of Elrond's household present. We see nothing of them in the account of the council (unless they were part of those Elves who 'stopped their ears', when Gandalf spoke the Black Speech).

I would guess that Elrond introduced them all (Elves are courteous). I would also guess that the narrator (presumably Frodo, though possibly Bilbo) remembered the names. If Bilbo, he would have known them all. If Frodo (assuming he was the narrator for most of 'Many Meetings'), he seemed to have no problem remembering the name of 'Lindir', though (as far as we know) Bilbo only mentioned it once.

So, I guess that the reason why they were not named in 'The Red Book of Westmarch' might well have been a narrative choice (by Frodo or Bilbo) to refrain from naming too many people who had played no previous part, and would play no future part, in the narrative.

(It is interesting, though, that this goes against a tradition in Nordic epics, wherein a lengthy list of all the participants in an important meeting such as this, might have been expected, including details of their heritages and deeds.)

 

[amysrevenge]

I like that last parenthetical observation. I think it goes hand in hand with the difference between Elves and Norsemen - Elves don't need to be remembered in song, as they will be there themselves centuries later in-person.

 

[Anthony Lawther]

I would guess that Elrond introduced them all (Elves are courteous). I would also guess that the narrator (presumably Frodo, though possibly Bilbo) remembered the names. If Bilbo, he would have known them all. If Frodo (assuming he was the narrator for most of 'Many Meetings'), he seemed to have no problem remembering the name of 'Lindir', though (as far as we know) Bilbo only mentioned it once.

That's actually a great parallel: Lindir was not alone in the Hall of Fire, yet he is the only one of the Elves critiquing Bilbo's poem that is named.
This also parallels the meeting with Gildor and company, where only Gildor is named yet conversation with many occurs.
So, whether it is a narrative choice or evidence of the narrator (Frodo?) being unable to remember all of the participants' names remains to be determined. When we get to Lothlorien (in a year or two) we'll have another meeting with an Elf community to compare, and then when we get to Rohan and Gondor we'll have meetings with human communities.

It will be interesting to see if there is a trend.

 

[Flammifer]

That's actually a great parallel: Lindir was not alone in the Hall of Fire, yet he is the only one of the Elves critiquing Bilbo's poem that is named.
This also parallels the meeting with Gildor and company, where only Gildor is named yet conversation with many occurs.
So, whether it is a narrative choice or evidence of the narrator (Frodo?) being unable to remember all of the participants' names remains to be determined. When we get to Lothlorien (in a year or two) we'll have another meeting with an Elf community to compare, and then when we get to Rohan and Gondor we'll have meetings with human communities.

It will be interesting to see if there is a trend.

Lindir also plays no past nor future role in the narrative. So, why is he named? My own speculation is that he is named just to call more attention to his little speech about 'sheep and shepherds', which I think is an important passage (to Tolkien).