Discussion in 'Questions for Narnion' started by Nette, Jan 11, 2019 at 3:10 PM.

  1. Nette

    Nette New Member

    Sorry to go back but it is only to episode 86!

    When talking about Glorfindel’s introduction you talked briefly about the implication of being said to dwell in Rivendell. You said/implied that this distinguishes Glorfindel as being part of Elrond’s household or of being of some status within Rivendell.

    I think this also says something about choice. Glorfindel is not “of the house of Elrond” etc: he dwells. To be described as of someone’s household suggests a formal service arrangement. For instance a member of a royal household renders service to the King/Queen even if they are themselves of a very high status. This service does not have to be hard and may be largely ceremonial but it is a formal arrangement. For Glorfindel to dwell in Rivendell implies his high status and close connection with Elrond but also suggests it is an informal arrangement of choice. Glorfindel chooses to live in Rivendell for now but he has not tied himself there. He is equally free to leave and maybe found a new Elven haven if he wanted.

    For other comparisons within Tolkien Galadriel “dwelt” in Doriath (Of the Noldor in Beleriand, Silmarillion). She is certainly of high status within Doriath but is not tied there. Among the various different versions of their history Galadriel and Celeborn leave Doriath before its fall usually to create a new realm. I’m sure there are other examples as well.

    Perhaps this forms part of the distinction between Elf lords and normal non-lordly Elves. An Elf lord can choose to attach him/herself to another for a time, even it an age or more! But ultimately it is their own choice to do so. I’m not sure what this says about non-lordly Elves. Are elf servants gamefully employed or do they serve for the love of it at that moment? There must be someone doing the washing, cooking etc.

    On another note I have just caught up today. I actually listened to part of the Barrow Downs discussion during the early stages of labour. My baby seems to like listening to these so hopefully it was a positive start to her Tolkien education.
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  2. amysrevenge

    amysrevenge Well-Known Member

    Hey, that's a good observation!

    Specifically about Galadriel and Celeborn: when they left, I would think that G could leave just by saying "Bye!" but for C to go there would have been a more formal leave-taking, with the asking for and granting of permission from Thingol.

    There was probably a similar "dwelt with" relation between Gil-galad and his host (Cirdan if I recall?) in the period after Fingon was dead while Turgon was High King.
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  3. Johannes Movert

    Johannes Movert New Member

    Yes, this feels just right!

    I've always just interpreted "dwelt" to mean that Glorfindel is more of a guest in Rivendell, and not a part of the actual household, but your interpretation really hits the nail on the head. I think someone else also called him a guest in the Discord-chat during the session, but I can't remember who.

    Hey, congrats on the baby!

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