Atanvarno
Member
I'm sorry I wasn't around for the discussion, life intervened. I haven't yet watched the video, so these thoughts have that caveat.
It looks to me, from MithLuin's summary, like the protagonist is Olwë. He's where the protagonist stands at the end of the episode. Which is interesting, because it means we can see the important things this episode – Lenwë/ents, Elwë/Melian, and the Vanyar and Noldor leaving – as bad things happening to Olwë. So given that, the next question is what's the antagonistic force? Looks to me like Olwë has a very personal fear of being left behind, which can be explored through his frustrations with the wider Teleri. This makes sense to me: his brother disappeared off to Valinor for a long time, leaving him alone. Throughout the episode he is desperately deferring his issues by trying to make sure the Teleri aren't left behind, and importantly, he mostly fails.
The next thing to do with that information is put in the act breaks.
The first plot point (end of act one) makes Olwë's fears real, something he has to actively deal with, rather than live with as he has thus far. This is obviously Lenwë's people abandoning the journey.
The midpoint (end of act two) marks Olwë's decision to stand up and try engage with and resolve his fears. His brother mysteriously vanishes.
The second plot point powers him through to the climax, giving him the last bit he needs to get where he's going. The Noldor leave.
So what's the climax to Olwë's story? His decision to leave his brother behind and press on, but more importantly, the realisation that being left behind is okay. It's not a bad thing that Celeborn, Beleg, et al choose to stay and he doesn't need to break himself to get them to go.
Then slot in pinch points in mid acts two and three, reminders of the reality of the antagonistic force. We've got the Vanyar leaving before the Noldor (I think that's a change from the source, since they and the Noldor went together? But, it works great for this story, so I'm all for it), which looks like the mid-act two point. The mid-act three point is more difficult to identify, it could be the cut back to Lenwë's people and the ents, or it might be the 'meanwhile, in Angband' scene. Neither particularly speak to the primary conflict, but it's workable. For argument's sake, I'm going to say it's Angband, but it doesn't have to be.
With that framework in place, we can see this a coherent story, rather than a series of disparate, disjointed events.
So act one is about establishing Olwë and his slightly ambivalent relationship to Elwë, and how that plays out in his frustration with Lenwë's people. Olwë's heard all about Valinor from his brother and he's sure as hell not going to let the Teleri (read, himself) miss out on that. Discovering the ents, while it will probably the bulk of screen time in the act, is really just storytelling context for that: there's this group that are mucking about with some weird moving trees, which would be fine, but they're going to make the Teleri late, damnit. (So it looks like Elwë is the more adventurous, out going brother and Olwë is more reserved and anxious.) So the act ends with Lenwë's people staying behind, which is devastating for Olwë. He mourns for them.
(At some point in act one, we have to deal with the frame, I guess. So Arwen expresses her grief at being left behind by her mother. It has some resonance. Whatever.)
Act two – Open with the crossing of the Misty Mountains. Elwë puts Olwë in charge of getting the Teleri across Eriador to Ered Luin, while he goes and meets up with Finwë. Olwë is daunted by the task – he's hardly a natural leader – but he'll try his best and his mission as he sees it is to make sure no more Teleri are left behind. His brother goes off, meets with Finwë and then gets ensnared in Nan Elmoth. Again, this is the bulk of the screen time, but really it's context – set up for Olwë's loss. I'd even suggest intercutting Elwë's posse looking for him, with Olwë giving the Teleri motivation to drive on (rousing speech about how much they all love Elwë?), then do the strange and ethereal meeting of Elwë and Melian.
(Remember, in the middle of the act there's a brief scene with the Vanyar leaving. Since it's the pinch point, they don't need a conflict to overcome – Ulmo/Ossë can be waiting for them with ferry all good to go – since the scene is to illustrate the primary conflict, the fact of their leaving is enough.)
Act three opens with Olwë receiving the news of his brother's disappearance. He and Elwë's posse are united, they lead the Teleri over the Misty Mountains to go find Elwë. But they can't find him. The act ends with news that the Noldor have reached the shore and a reminder from Finwë that the Teleri need to hurry up.
(This act also has a fair amount of subplot to get through, to make up its somewhat threadbare content – Lenwë's people with the ents update and the Angband update. I'd probably also drop back to the frame and have Arwen see her mother's rescue in this act. Yawn.)
Act four opens on Olwë's anguish for the loss of his brother and his huge decision: does he stay, abandon his Valinorean dreams for his brother's sake or continue on with his brother's mission? Agonising. Then, lo, the Noldor leave as Finwë worries for Elwë and the Teleri. Elwë's posse makes it abundantly clear they ain't going anywhere without their boy, they didn't sign up for Valinor, they're following Elwë. Olwë shares a conversation with his buddy Círdan (I forget his old school name), who is way wiser than him, who lays it out for him: you have to lead, in your brother's place, those that want to go to Valinor. Olwë realises that it's okay if half his people want to stay for Elwë, they're not going to miss out, they're just going to do something different. It's okay for him to leave them behind and they're fine with being left behind.
(I suppose in this act we have to drop back for the frame conclusion – Arwen comes to accept her mother's decision (look, more resonance) to leave, but she's still sad she's gone. And she is still not certain that the West is by necessity the ultimate destiny for the elves of Middle-earth.)
Technically, the dénouement is part of act four (certainly in terms of page count and ad/act breaks), so right at the end of the episode, Olwë has made his peace and leads his people down Celon, Aros and Sirion to the shore at Balar and finally, we see Elwë and Melian frozen together and fade out to the sound of nightingales.
So that's why I think Olwë is the protagonist and we don't need to split that role between him and Elwë.
(Edited to fix confusing typos.)
It looks to me, from MithLuin's summary, like the protagonist is Olwë. He's where the protagonist stands at the end of the episode. Which is interesting, because it means we can see the important things this episode – Lenwë/ents, Elwë/Melian, and the Vanyar and Noldor leaving – as bad things happening to Olwë. So given that, the next question is what's the antagonistic force? Looks to me like Olwë has a very personal fear of being left behind, which can be explored through his frustrations with the wider Teleri. This makes sense to me: his brother disappeared off to Valinor for a long time, leaving him alone. Throughout the episode he is desperately deferring his issues by trying to make sure the Teleri aren't left behind, and importantly, he mostly fails.
The next thing to do with that information is put in the act breaks.
The first plot point (end of act one) makes Olwë's fears real, something he has to actively deal with, rather than live with as he has thus far. This is obviously Lenwë's people abandoning the journey.
The midpoint (end of act two) marks Olwë's decision to stand up and try engage with and resolve his fears. His brother mysteriously vanishes.
The second plot point powers him through to the climax, giving him the last bit he needs to get where he's going. The Noldor leave.
So what's the climax to Olwë's story? His decision to leave his brother behind and press on, but more importantly, the realisation that being left behind is okay. It's not a bad thing that Celeborn, Beleg, et al choose to stay and he doesn't need to break himself to get them to go.
Then slot in pinch points in mid acts two and three, reminders of the reality of the antagonistic force. We've got the Vanyar leaving before the Noldor (I think that's a change from the source, since they and the Noldor went together? But, it works great for this story, so I'm all for it), which looks like the mid-act two point. The mid-act three point is more difficult to identify, it could be the cut back to Lenwë's people and the ents, or it might be the 'meanwhile, in Angband' scene. Neither particularly speak to the primary conflict, but it's workable. For argument's sake, I'm going to say it's Angband, but it doesn't have to be.
With that framework in place, we can see this a coherent story, rather than a series of disparate, disjointed events.
So act one is about establishing Olwë and his slightly ambivalent relationship to Elwë, and how that plays out in his frustration with Lenwë's people. Olwë's heard all about Valinor from his brother and he's sure as hell not going to let the Teleri (read, himself) miss out on that. Discovering the ents, while it will probably the bulk of screen time in the act, is really just storytelling context for that: there's this group that are mucking about with some weird moving trees, which would be fine, but they're going to make the Teleri late, damnit. (So it looks like Elwë is the more adventurous, out going brother and Olwë is more reserved and anxious.) So the act ends with Lenwë's people staying behind, which is devastating for Olwë. He mourns for them.
(At some point in act one, we have to deal with the frame, I guess. So Arwen expresses her grief at being left behind by her mother. It has some resonance. Whatever.)
Act two – Open with the crossing of the Misty Mountains. Elwë puts Olwë in charge of getting the Teleri across Eriador to Ered Luin, while he goes and meets up with Finwë. Olwë is daunted by the task – he's hardly a natural leader – but he'll try his best and his mission as he sees it is to make sure no more Teleri are left behind. His brother goes off, meets with Finwë and then gets ensnared in Nan Elmoth. Again, this is the bulk of the screen time, but really it's context – set up for Olwë's loss. I'd even suggest intercutting Elwë's posse looking for him, with Olwë giving the Teleri motivation to drive on (rousing speech about how much they all love Elwë?), then do the strange and ethereal meeting of Elwë and Melian.
(Remember, in the middle of the act there's a brief scene with the Vanyar leaving. Since it's the pinch point, they don't need a conflict to overcome – Ulmo/Ossë can be waiting for them with ferry all good to go – since the scene is to illustrate the primary conflict, the fact of their leaving is enough.)
Act three opens with Olwë receiving the news of his brother's disappearance. He and Elwë's posse are united, they lead the Teleri over the Misty Mountains to go find Elwë. But they can't find him. The act ends with news that the Noldor have reached the shore and a reminder from Finwë that the Teleri need to hurry up.
(This act also has a fair amount of subplot to get through, to make up its somewhat threadbare content – Lenwë's people with the ents update and the Angband update. I'd probably also drop back to the frame and have Arwen see her mother's rescue in this act. Yawn.)
Act four opens on Olwë's anguish for the loss of his brother and his huge decision: does he stay, abandon his Valinorean dreams for his brother's sake or continue on with his brother's mission? Agonising. Then, lo, the Noldor leave as Finwë worries for Elwë and the Teleri. Elwë's posse makes it abundantly clear they ain't going anywhere without their boy, they didn't sign up for Valinor, they're following Elwë. Olwë shares a conversation with his buddy Círdan (I forget his old school name), who is way wiser than him, who lays it out for him: you have to lead, in your brother's place, those that want to go to Valinor. Olwë realises that it's okay if half his people want to stay for Elwë, they're not going to miss out, they're just going to do something different. It's okay for him to leave them behind and they're fine with being left behind.
(I suppose in this act we have to drop back for the frame conclusion – Arwen comes to accept her mother's decision (look, more resonance) to leave, but she's still sad she's gone. And she is still not certain that the West is by necessity the ultimate destiny for the elves of Middle-earth.)
Technically, the dénouement is part of act four (certainly in terms of page count and ad/act breaks), so right at the end of the episode, Olwë has made his peace and leads his people down Celon, Aros and Sirion to the shore at Balar and finally, we see Elwë and Melian frozen together and fade out to the sound of nightingales.
So that's why I think Olwë is the protagonist and we don't need to split that role between him and Elwë.
(Edited to fix confusing typos.)
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