Anthony Lawther
Well-Known Member
I'm only 73 episodes behind, so wouldn't expect this to be addressed on the stream, but in listening to episode 21 I noticed that Corey stated that Merry and Pippin are aristocracy and Frodo and Fatty are only semi-aristocracy.
Is this due to their perceived distance in line of succession from the current Thane and Master? I note that Fatty, Pippin, and Merry all share the Old Took as their great-great grandfather, with Merry and Pippin descended from the third son, Hildigrim, and Fatty descended from the eighth son Hildibrand. Bilbo's mother was the Old Took's oldest daughter who was next younger to Hildibrand. Frodo's grandmother Mirabella was the Old Took's youngest daughter and second youngest child, so in that line of succession would be lowest.
Merry and Pippin as direct heirs apparent to their respective family line's titles are undoubtedly of higher station, but from a line of succession perspective Fatty would actually outrank even Bilbo, who is 1st cousin twice removed to each of Fatty, Merry, and Pippin in the Took line, and certainly would outrank Frodo.
If we saw the Thane and Master as somewhat equivalent to Dukes under King Elessar, with Merry and Pippin as Margraves, then would Fatty be around Baron or Baronet, with Bilbo and Frodo merely Gentleman / Lairds?
Is this due to their perceived distance in line of succession from the current Thane and Master? I note that Fatty, Pippin, and Merry all share the Old Took as their great-great grandfather, with Merry and Pippin descended from the third son, Hildigrim, and Fatty descended from the eighth son Hildibrand. Bilbo's mother was the Old Took's oldest daughter who was next younger to Hildibrand. Frodo's grandmother Mirabella was the Old Took's youngest daughter and second youngest child, so in that line of succession would be lowest.
Merry and Pippin as direct heirs apparent to their respective family line's titles are undoubtedly of higher station, but from a line of succession perspective Fatty would actually outrank even Bilbo, who is 1st cousin twice removed to each of Fatty, Merry, and Pippin in the Took line, and certainly would outrank Frodo.
If we saw the Thane and Master as somewhat equivalent to Dukes under King Elessar, with Merry and Pippin as Margraves, then would Fatty be around Baron or Baronet, with Bilbo and Frodo merely Gentleman / Lairds?