Frodo's Dreams related to Palantirs?

Stori3D Past

Stori3D Past

Member
Hi Professor (and all). I had originally posted this as a response to a necro-thread, but was advised to make a new one.

Playing long-game catch-up with Exploring LOTR. (Mostly observing on Twitter or silently ruminating. But once in a while I'd like to share.) Regarding Frodo's dreams in Buckland & Tom's house -- I find it striking that all 3 dreams can be related to the location of 3 remaining functional (i.e., non-sunk) palantiri. Obviously the one at Orthanc, when he saw Gandalf. Tower Hills, with the open heath land and the scent/sound of the sea. And then at last the far green country and swift sunrise relating to the palantir that remained in Elvenhome.

Of the original 8 (including the one at Eressea), 5 still exist in the world above the waves. The last two that would not have been accounted for yet in Frodo's dreams would be the Minas Tirith stone and the Minas Ithil one stolen by Sauron. Will be very interesting going forward to see if Frodo has any further dreams or visions that could be said to come from either or both of those locations.

The big question remains, though, why? None of these dreams serves any tangible point in the story where they are located. They don't give Frodo any usable intel or obvious, lasting inspiration. What if, instead, they are manifestations of his being named Elf-Friend, which had happened just the night before his first dream? In that light, would his access to the palantiri through these dreams be a sign that he is now marked as special? Could that help explain also why he is the only one in the barrow to awaken, and to be able to fight back?

Very interested to keep on listening & catching up.
 
I like it, but there is a danger in stating wider legendarium items too firmly as fact in a Lord of the Rings context. It might be best to avoid making a lot of claims about any palantiri outside the 7 stones we learn of in this text.
 
Do we know when Prof Tolkien first conceived of the palantiri, and whether the reference to the Masterstone at Avallone in the Silmarillion was contemporary with the publishing of LOTR?
 
Yes -- Tolkien first conceived of the palantiri while writing the sequence at Orthanc where Gandalf confronts Saruman (in the Two Towers). In typical Tolkien fashion, when that ball gets chucked off the balcony at a some wizardly head or other, Tolkien then had to figure out what the ball was. It took him quite a few goes before he discovered.

There is no way, therefore, that the knowledge of the palantiri could have influenced Frodo's dreams, as those all predate the palantiri. But that doesn't mean that this overlap isn't worth thinking about, of course.
 
Sorry for late response, and much obliged for the answer! That's fascinating that the Palantir was one of those "What did I just write?" moments.

It still leaves a puzzle then. Clearly Prof Tolkien put those dreams in, specifically, for a reason. He had something in mind with each, something he wanted to tell. I still wonder what that was. There is of course the fourth dream the night of the Black Riders' raid on Crickhollow & at Bree. Frodo thinks he hears hoofs and horns. The easiest interpretation is that it's Crickhollow he's hearing/dreaming. But he hears this in his dream at dawn, while the Crickhollow event happened several hours before, in the middle of the night. So again, the message of his dream is not as clear as it seems to be. It may be Crickhollow, but given his earlier dreams it could also relate to any event anywhere.
 
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