Flammifer
Well-Known Member
Yes!
If Boromir was not satisfied that his Dream had been answered, he would object! If Boromir did not think that he understood the Dream, he would have spoken up!
Boromir did not travel for 110 days and 400 leagues in pursuit of answers to the Dream, to just be silent if he does not think the Dream has been totally explained.
So, what does Boromir think the explanation is?
“Seek for the sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells;”
‘Check – found Imladris. Check – found sword that was broken.’
“There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur’s Bane shall waken,
And the Halfling forth shall stand.”
‘Check – That’s the Ring and the Hobbit.’
“There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells.”
‘OK, that is the puzzle. What ‘counsels’ have been taken? I think there were three decisions: The sword, and its possibly helpful (though possibly inconvenient) bearer will come to Minas Tirith; The Ring should be thrown into Mt. Doom; The Hobbit will try to take it there.’
‘Why would those counsels be, ‘Stronger than Morgul-spells’?
One does not travel desperately and distantly to find mythical Imladris in response to a Divine Dream, sit at a Council which seems to be directly mentioned in that dream, and leave that Council before it comes up with counsels which seem to fit the Dream and be ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’.
Boromir has his ‘Eureka’ moment when he hears Elrond say that he believes that if the One Ring were destroyed, the Three would fail.
“That’s it! If the One Ring is destroyed, the Three will fail! Therefore, the Nine will fail! Stronger than Morgul-spells indeed! Those Nine Rings are all that keep the Nazgul ‘alive’ here in Middle-earth. Destroy the One Ring, and poof go the Nazgul! The Nazgul disappear, and there will be no more Morgul-spells!”
“Sure, we will still have Sauron himself to deal with. But the Nazgul are his chief agents. They are the ones we could not face in the retreat to Osgiliath. If they disappear, Sauron will be greatly weakened. Without the Nine, the brave Men of Gondor can defeat him! Probably the Sword of Elendil, and Isildur’s heir can help?”
“Also, I judge the odds of sneaking into Mordor and destroying the Ring and eliminating the Nazgul as worth taking. If the quest to throw the Ring in the Fire fails, and Sauron reclaims the Ring, he gets stronger. So what? He is too strong for us already! A Stronger Sauron cannot defeat us any worse than Ringless Sauron can.”
“The chances of success are surprisingly good. Gandalf, as I understand it, has snuck into (and out of) Sauron’s stronghold twice before, and invaded it in force another time. He has experience. The Hobbit can also turn invisible, which might be very useful when sneaking into Mordor. Also, Mordor is not Dol Guldur. Mordor is probably easier to sneak into and get to Mt. Doom. Sauron lived in Dol Guldur. He does not live at Mt. Doom, but in Barad-dur, which is leagues away. Probably easier to sneak into Mordor and get to Mt. Doom than to sneak into the very dungeons of Dol Guldur, and escape successfully!”
I believe that Boromir must think that his Divine Dream has been completely answered, or else he would speak up. I think the answer that must have occurred to him is that destroying the Ring will destroy the Nazgul. That is how the ‘counsels taken’ in Imladris might prove ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’. He also thinks that if Gandalf, with a proven track record, is part of the attempt, the odds are worth the gamble.
I do not think that Boromir has totally forgotten the notion of using the Ring as a weapon against Sauron. It will come back to him. But, I think that for now, he is thinking that the ‘counsels taken at Imladris’ might prove stronger than Morgul-spells, and that using the Ring as a weapon might not turn out well. I think he now accepts the current plan. However, Boromir is a good General. He will always have several back-up plans in the back of his mind.
I do not think there is any way that he thinks destroying the Ring will destroy Sauron and win the war in one fell swoop! (No one has mentioned that at all during the entire debate.)
I also think the careful first-time reader should be thinking precisely as Boromir.
If Boromir was not satisfied that his Dream had been answered, he would object! If Boromir did not think that he understood the Dream, he would have spoken up!
Boromir did not travel for 110 days and 400 leagues in pursuit of answers to the Dream, to just be silent if he does not think the Dream has been totally explained.
So, what does Boromir think the explanation is?
“Seek for the sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells;”
‘Check – found Imladris. Check – found sword that was broken.’
“There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur’s Bane shall waken,
And the Halfling forth shall stand.”
‘Check – That’s the Ring and the Hobbit.’
“There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul-spells.”
‘OK, that is the puzzle. What ‘counsels’ have been taken? I think there were three decisions: The sword, and its possibly helpful (though possibly inconvenient) bearer will come to Minas Tirith; The Ring should be thrown into Mt. Doom; The Hobbit will try to take it there.’
‘Why would those counsels be, ‘Stronger than Morgul-spells’?
One does not travel desperately and distantly to find mythical Imladris in response to a Divine Dream, sit at a Council which seems to be directly mentioned in that dream, and leave that Council before it comes up with counsels which seem to fit the Dream and be ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’.
Boromir has his ‘Eureka’ moment when he hears Elrond say that he believes that if the One Ring were destroyed, the Three would fail.
“That’s it! If the One Ring is destroyed, the Three will fail! Therefore, the Nine will fail! Stronger than Morgul-spells indeed! Those Nine Rings are all that keep the Nazgul ‘alive’ here in Middle-earth. Destroy the One Ring, and poof go the Nazgul! The Nazgul disappear, and there will be no more Morgul-spells!”
“Sure, we will still have Sauron himself to deal with. But the Nazgul are his chief agents. They are the ones we could not face in the retreat to Osgiliath. If they disappear, Sauron will be greatly weakened. Without the Nine, the brave Men of Gondor can defeat him! Probably the Sword of Elendil, and Isildur’s heir can help?”
“Also, I judge the odds of sneaking into Mordor and destroying the Ring and eliminating the Nazgul as worth taking. If the quest to throw the Ring in the Fire fails, and Sauron reclaims the Ring, he gets stronger. So what? He is too strong for us already! A Stronger Sauron cannot defeat us any worse than Ringless Sauron can.”
“The chances of success are surprisingly good. Gandalf, as I understand it, has snuck into (and out of) Sauron’s stronghold twice before, and invaded it in force another time. He has experience. The Hobbit can also turn invisible, which might be very useful when sneaking into Mordor. Also, Mordor is not Dol Guldur. Mordor is probably easier to sneak into and get to Mt. Doom. Sauron lived in Dol Guldur. He does not live at Mt. Doom, but in Barad-dur, which is leagues away. Probably easier to sneak into Mordor and get to Mt. Doom than to sneak into the very dungeons of Dol Guldur, and escape successfully!”
I believe that Boromir must think that his Divine Dream has been completely answered, or else he would speak up. I think the answer that must have occurred to him is that destroying the Ring will destroy the Nazgul. That is how the ‘counsels taken’ in Imladris might prove ‘stronger than Morgul-spells’. He also thinks that if Gandalf, with a proven track record, is part of the attempt, the odds are worth the gamble.
I do not think that Boromir has totally forgotten the notion of using the Ring as a weapon against Sauron. It will come back to him. But, I think that for now, he is thinking that the ‘counsels taken at Imladris’ might prove stronger than Morgul-spells, and that using the Ring as a weapon might not turn out well. I think he now accepts the current plan. However, Boromir is a good General. He will always have several back-up plans in the back of his mind.
I do not think there is any way that he thinks destroying the Ring will destroy Sauron and win the war in one fell swoop! (No one has mentioned that at all during the entire debate.)
I also think the careful first-time reader should be thinking precisely as Boromir.