Ennikan
Member
A lot of talk around the issue of tactics and the riders 2 sets of 2 riders not advancing. Corey came down that the first two simply could not make it into the dell, likely due to the strength of the Tale of Tinuviel. The second two were stopped by Frodo's speaking Elbereth as well as possibly his weapon which was crafted specially to combat the riders.
So there was much defending of the fact that there was no way this was a physical tactic - to stop at the dell, and to only have the Witch King make it to Frodo.
But if we're saying it's a spiritual battle, then let's analyze it so. Why are we assuming the riders are acting with battlefield tactics - especially when they don't have enough to circle the dell anyway? Wouldn't the black riders know more about spiritual warfare than anyone? Or just as much?
It's not that I can't buy the fact that the song had an effect, or that Frodo's naming of Elbereth did.
But I have always read that scene as a purposeful advance by the Witch King. The fact that two stood at the dell's edge, and then the two help back as the Witch King advance always made it MORE scary for me. The Witch King - a great sorcerer and a wraith - the one who cannot be killed by a man (so let's note, NOBODY is the dell that night is going to hurt him). He's feeling confident in his task. Subdue the ringbearer and get the ring.
Corey made the point that he felt only stabbing him was not plan A. I'm not sure about that. Aragorn will later remark to Sam that he feels the enemy has given Frodo a wound that will subdue him to their will and control. There are many, many miles between the wilderness and Mordor. There's no rush to get the ring.
Back to the advance. Of the 5 there's this one central figure who has more power than the other. He actually IS the tip of the spear. And maybe he doesn't need anyone's help to do what needs being done. And that is what made it scary to me. As the two groups hang back, all the attention is on the Witch King. He advances without hesitation, drawing his weapon. He will either kill Frodo outright or give him a wound that will subdue him shortly after. There is nobody there who can stop him - fire brands or no.
What need has he of the other 4? I argue, none. They defer to him, showing the power of the one. And that one advances and achieves his mission. Frodo is gravely wounded.
Now there is no need to stick around. Let the shard to it's work. Rivendell is far away and the small group has no help. Meanwhile, there are 4 other riders that can join the 5 to hold the Fords against the party should they get that far.
I don't see fear in the 4 who hold back. I see deference and confidence.
So there was much defending of the fact that there was no way this was a physical tactic - to stop at the dell, and to only have the Witch King make it to Frodo.
But if we're saying it's a spiritual battle, then let's analyze it so. Why are we assuming the riders are acting with battlefield tactics - especially when they don't have enough to circle the dell anyway? Wouldn't the black riders know more about spiritual warfare than anyone? Or just as much?
It's not that I can't buy the fact that the song had an effect, or that Frodo's naming of Elbereth did.
But I have always read that scene as a purposeful advance by the Witch King. The fact that two stood at the dell's edge, and then the two help back as the Witch King advance always made it MORE scary for me. The Witch King - a great sorcerer and a wraith - the one who cannot be killed by a man (so let's note, NOBODY is the dell that night is going to hurt him). He's feeling confident in his task. Subdue the ringbearer and get the ring.
Corey made the point that he felt only stabbing him was not plan A. I'm not sure about that. Aragorn will later remark to Sam that he feels the enemy has given Frodo a wound that will subdue him to their will and control. There are many, many miles between the wilderness and Mordor. There's no rush to get the ring.
Back to the advance. Of the 5 there's this one central figure who has more power than the other. He actually IS the tip of the spear. And maybe he doesn't need anyone's help to do what needs being done. And that is what made it scary to me. As the two groups hang back, all the attention is on the Witch King. He advances without hesitation, drawing his weapon. He will either kill Frodo outright or give him a wound that will subdue him shortly after. There is nobody there who can stop him - fire brands or no.
What need has he of the other 4? I argue, none. They defer to him, showing the power of the one. And that one advances and achieves his mission. Frodo is gravely wounded.
Now there is no need to stick around. Let the shard to it's work. Rivendell is far away and the small group has no help. Meanwhile, there are 4 other riders that can join the 5 to hold the Fords against the party should they get that far.
I don't see fear in the 4 who hold back. I see deference and confidence.