Script Discussion S05E05

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
This should have been put up a while ago, for which I apologize. Most of my SilmFilm time has been tied up with other matters. This discussion will be Sunday night @ 8:30 Eastern.

This episode is going to focus on the arrival of the Men of Estolad (later the House of Hador) and the Haladin's journey through Nan Dungortheb. So... thoughts?
 
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Haakon

Administrator
Staff member
I think we have to make Nan Dungortheb look really dangerous. The number of Haladin who get killed or lost should not be small. It should be scenes of terror.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
There are no cats in Nan Dungortheb, and the streets are filled with...spiders? (The cats are based in the Forest of Brethil, and that will be the next step in the Haladin storyline, but not in this episode)

The Estolad storyline is going to be told from the Elvish point of view in this episode. We are going to see Galadriel and Doriath reacting to Men, since we did not get their viewpoint in earlier episodes. During the preseason discussions, it was suggested that some of the Men's practices significantly alarm the elves - such as capital punishment. An executed body is found hanging from a tree, and this practice is quite alien to the Elves.
 

Patrick Graham

New Member
In our SilmFilm version, is Estolad part of Amras's realm? if so how shall we see his reaction to the Hadorian's entering his lands, they are described in the book as marching in warlike ordered numerous companies as opposed to the more peaceful and civilian-like Beorians and Halladin. Wiil we see Amras make an alliance and friendship with them like Finrod or take a more Caranthir like approach of indifference.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
In our SilmFilm version, is Estolad part of Amras's realm? if so how shall we see his reaction to the Hadorian's entering his lands, they are described in the book as marching in warlike ordered numerous companies as opposed to the more peaceful and civilian-like Beorians and Halladin. Wiil we see Amras make an alliance and friendship with them like Finrod or take a more Caranthir like approach of indifference.
He certainly allows them to settle on his lands, and so long as they stay out of each other’s business there isn’t much conflict. The Green Elves on the other hand...
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
I agree that Amras is an elf whose reaction we need. We do need to decide on the placement of Estolad. I have to imagine it will be within Amras' lands, and his reaction to this large company of Men should be shown. He's not going to fight them or prevent them from settling Estolad, but he doesn't have to be happy about them, either.

The 'decision maker' in this episode is likely to be Doriath - the Green Elves are a resounding 'no' to Men at the beginning and at the end. So, we need to show that conflict, and Galadriel can mediate in some way, but the Green Elves aren't going to change their minds.

Doriath, on the other hand, has choices to make. The Haladin are on their way west, and Doriath is going to have to decide whether or not to let them pass through their lands. The 'no' results in Haleth's decision to go through Nan Dungortheb. Doriath is going to re-evaluate a bit when it comes time for Haleth to settle in the Forest of Brethil. So, what happens in between those two decisions? That's what this episode is about.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
I agree that Amras is an elf whose reaction we need. We do need to decide on the placement of Estolad. I have to imagine it will be within Amras' lands, and his reaction to this large company of Men should be shown. He's not going to fight them or prevent them from settling Estolad, but he doesn't have to be happy about them, either.

The 'decision maker' in this episode is likely to be Doriath - the Green Elves are a resounding 'no' to Men at the beginning and at the end. So, we need to show that conflict, and Galadriel can mediate in some way, but the Green Elves aren't going to change their minds.

Doriath, on the other hand, has choices to make. The Haladin are on their way west, and Doriath is going to have to decide whether or not to let them pass through their lands. The 'no' results in Haleth's decision to go through Nan Dungortheb. Doriath is going to re-evaluate a bit when it comes time for Haleth to settle in the Forest of Brethil. So, what happens in between those two decisions? That's what this episode is about.
What is Thingol going to base his decision to not allow the Haladin through on? On the other hand he might base his decision to allow them to settle in Brethil since it’s not protected by the Girdle, Men aren’t useless (this is going to be after Haleth vs. Tevildo, right?) and there are lands around Doriath that need protecting (this will come up in future seasons when Boldog attacks Doriath and Beleg and Turin protect the lands around Doriath once Turin is of age.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
What is Thingol going to base his decision to not allow the Haladin through on? On the other hand he might base his decision to allow them to settle in Brethil since it’s not protected by the Girdle, Men aren’t useless (this is going to be after Haleth vs. Tevildo, right?) and there are lands around Doriath that need protecting (this will come up in future seasons when Boldog attacks Doriath and Beleg and Turin protect the lands around Doriath once Turin is of age.
I do believe that Thingol's decision will have to be justified in this episode, presumably by foreboding dreams early on.

It is true that the fact that the Girdle does not cover Brethil may play a part in Thingol's decision to cede it to the Haladin. Their daring passage through Nan Dungortheb likely plays a role as well. Haleth's showdown with Tevildo will take place next episode, so we want to lay the groundwork for all of that.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I agree that Amras is an elf whose reaction we need. We do need to decide on the placement of Estolad. I have to imagine it will be within Amras' lands, and his reaction to this large company of Men should be shown. He's not going to fight them or prevent them from settling Estolad, but he doesn't have to be happy about them, either.

The 'decision maker' in this episode is likely to be Doriath - the Green Elves are a resounding 'no' to Men at the beginning and at the end. So, we need to show that conflict, and Galadriel can mediate in some way, but the Green Elves aren't going to change their minds.

Doriath, on the other hand, has choices to make. The Haladin are on their way west, and Doriath is going to have to decide whether or not to let them pass through their lands. The 'no' results in Haleth's decision to go through Nan Dungortheb. Doriath is going to re-evaluate a bit when it comes time for Haleth to settle in the Forest of Brethil. So, what happens in between those two decisions? That's what this episode is about.
The more I think about Estolad, the more I think of it as non-permanent. Being held in a number of locations throughout the season.
 

Patrick Graham

New Member
I see in that letting the Haladin settle in Brethil Thingol is simply being practical, he is using the haladin as a buffer state in an under populated part of his realm and protecting his border most probable prone to incursions.
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Certainly, with a large group of people in need of hunting grounds, grazing land, wood, and other resources, moving about is a more viable lifestyle than settling in one spot in many cases. Amras, being nomadic himself, can certainly understand that, but the Noldor in general are not like that. The Green Elves and the Sindar have a bit more of that in their lifestyle; Menegroth was an afterthought, not the way the Sindar lived all along.

Here's East Beleriand on the map:
1608494635448.png


Certainly, if we make the encampment at Estolad movable, we can shift it around as needed through the next few episodes.
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Certainly, with a large group of people in need of hunting grounds, grazing land, wood, and other resources, moving about is a more viable lifestyle than settling in one spot in many cases. Amras, being nomadic himself, can certainly understand that, but the Noldor in general are not like that. The Green Elves and the Sindar have a bit more of that in their lifestyle; Menegroth was an afterthought, not the way the Sindar lived all along.

Here's East Beleriand on the map:
View attachment 3266


Certainly, if we make the encampment at Estolad movable, we can shift it around as needed through the next few episodes.
Maybe the Hadorians practice horticulture?...
 

Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
How many Haladin are there at this point and how many should be lost in their trek through Nan Dungortheb?

Also, would Fingolfin and Fingon be recruiting in this episode?
 
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