Session 4.12 - Episodes 1 and 2

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
No, we aren't. Just some representatives from both sides would be sufficient.

Typically, when arranging a meeting between leaders of factions that might be at war, you choose neutral territory. So, a spot between the two camps, so on one has to enter 'enemy' territory. And each side brings equal numbers, not a few lords without bodyguards walking into an enemy camp.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
Hi there,

Since this Friday session Episode 2 is going to be discussed again (if briefly), I just wanted to request a couple things maybe be mentioned to the Hosts, please. I don't know whether you already mentioned these things to them on the Wednesday before last session, so I apologize if I'm repeating myself. (I will be gone Friday and all weekend.) I also have no idea where the Hosts stand on these issues currently.


I wanted to request that the Hosts allow the writers to include Angrod's visit to Doriath (even if it's mostly off-screen), and include Thingol's message to the Noldor about settling land in Beleriand, before the Noldor start taking land outside of Mithrim. I think it's very important both to show Thingol's attitude, and especially to show that the non-Feanorian princes truly respect Thingol and the Sindar and don't treat them with contempt. Spreading out to seize land all over Beleriand without even talking to Thingol about it would show racism and contempt, which would be out of character for Fingolfin, Turgon, Finrod, and the other non-Feanorians.

I also wanted to ask the Hosts to please give the writers a chance to try to depict a language barrier between Sindarin and Quenya, and wait to judge it until it's time to review the outlines.

Thank you. I hope Friday's session is a fun one.
 
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MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
Angrod's visit to Doriath would likely be an Episode 3 issue. Episodes 3-5 will be the subject of Session 4-14 on May 3rd. I'll start the thread for that after Friday's session.

But if anyone has anything they want to say about Episode 2, please post it here. Episode 2 focuses on Maedhros recognizing Fingolfin as High King, Galadriel's trip to Doriath, and Morgoth deciding to go West to find the newly-awakened Men. The Hosts might say some brief things about it on Friday, since they only spent 10-15 minutes on it last session.

The Quenya/Sindarin discussion is on the list for topics to discuss on Friday. I've passed both your and Haerangil's suggestions along to the Hosts of how to handle that :). Any other suggestions for Creative topics can go in the 4-13 thread.
 
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Ange1e4e5

Well-Known Member
Suggestions for Episode 2:
  • Morgoth tells Sauron (at the very least) that he will be on business in the East. He doesn’t say what it was, but we know it’s Men. He is accompanied by Fankil.
  • First Contact between Noldor and Sindar. Are they one unified camp at this point?
Question: Does Melian read Galadriel’s mind and know about the Kinslaying?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
First Contact between the Noldor and the Sindar occurs in Episode 1. The two Noldor camps will be reunited by Maedhros' actions in Episode 2 (though they won't necessarily join into a single camp.)

It was suggested that Fankil be the name of the leader among Men who serves as Morgoth's high priest. So, he would not be someone Morgoth takes with him.

Melian reads that there is a darkness behind Galadriel, and senses her turmoil, but she does not read the details from her mind, no. Thingol will not learn of the Kinslaying until Episode 8.
 

Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I don't know of where else to make suggestions about Episode 2, which will be written this Saturday. These are my attempt to gather my thoughts from the various threads:
  1. Turgon reminds Fingon that Maedhros abandoned him to the Grinding Ice. Perhaps he predicts that no Feanorian will cooperate with "naive" attempts to heal the feud.
  2. The Noldor begin trying to reunite, but do not reconcile.
  3. Amros tells Fingolfin's faction what happened at Losgar, and why Amrod is gone. They react in shock at what Feanor did... but Fingon also finds out that Maedhros didn't forget or willingly abandon him.
  4. Maglor's Besan/wife gives lembas to Maedhros, and lembas and seed-corn to Fingolfin's Besan/Lalwen. At least one scene of Maedhros being healed or beginning to recuperate, to make it clear that immortals don't have Wolverine-type healing factors and that his torment wasn't brief or trivial.
  5. Noldorin scouts explore Beleriand. (Ecthelion saves some Sindar from Gaurhoth?)
  6. Galadriel eagerly volunteers to go to Doriath as ambassador.
  7. Finarfinian family discussion about damage control re:Kinslaying, and moral conflict about hiding it from the Sindar. None of the family is comfortable with hiding it, and they certainly don't want to tell lies, but they know that the Sindar can't be allowed to learn of the Kinslaying, at least not now.
  8. Fingolfin declares certain topics off-limits because the Sindar must not learn of the Kinslaying. Don't tell them what happened at Losgar, or let them learn the ships were stolen.
  9. Galadriel goes to Doriath as an ambassador, but has an emotional crisis after meeting Melian's eyes. The Kinslaying, her mother's death, and her own cooperation (and attempted reconciliation?) with the Kinslayers weighs on her. She reveals nothing, and Melian doesn't read her mind, just her emotions.
  10. Galadriel gives up her political ambitions. The Noldor find out somehow that Galadriel has quit. If she doesn't leave Doriath, I guess she sends a Noldorin messenger back to Mithrim?
  11. Maedhros is recovered just enough to appear in public, but not much more (he isn't in great shape yet). He publically cedes his claim to the crown, shocking everybody except his brothers who are restrained but unhappy. Maedhros himself doesn't seem reluctant or bothered by his decision. Fingolfin is declared High King.
There are no Dragons yet.


Episode 2 or 3
?. The villains are alarmed by Thorondor’s involvement in Maedhros’ rescue. Morgoth suspects that Men have awakened.
11. Finrod sends Angrod to Doriath as an ambassador, but cautions him to speak as little of the Fëanoreans as possible.
12. Angrod tells Thingol a very whitewashed version of the Darkening of Valinor. He doesn't mention the Silmarils, rebellion, Kinslaying, or succession crisis. Finwë and/or Olwë's deaths may come out. (This may or may not happen off screen)
13. Thingol is less than satisfied with this tale. He allows the Noldor to settle the north, but declares Doriath off-limits.
14. Morgoth maybe leaves for Hildorien?
 
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Faelivrin

Well-Known Member
I also want to add that I very strongly disagree with Nick and Marie about the Noldor being incapable of ever leaving their camps, being trapped in them. Tolken didn't say anything about the two factions stationing armies to besiege each other or murder anyone who set foot outside their respective camps, and he clearly didn't intend them to be trapped inside little tent-camps for 5 years. In The Silmarillion they fortify their areas and send scouts to explore Beleriand, and Fingon hikes a long distance, which are all impossible if they can't go anywhere or gather supplies. They also need to be able to hunt, gather, and farm food, and construct warm houses appropriate for the subarctic. The people of Fingolfin clearly have been able to get food and warm houses: they don't act like people who have starved or suffered exposure for 5 years, they go climb mountains and travel long distance to Doriath and to scout Beleriand.

The lake of Mithrim is 50 miles long. There is more than enough space on either side of the lake for the Noldor to hunt, gather, cut wood, farm, and go off to scout without instantly running into an army from the other side and being murdered.
 

Nicholas Palazzo

Well-Known Member
I also want to add that I very strongly disagree with Nick and Marie about the Noldor being incapable of ever leaving their camps, being trapped in them. Tolken didn't say anything about the two factions stationing armies to besiege each other or murder anyone who set foot outside their respective camps, and he clearly didn't intend them to be trapped inside little tent-camps for 5 years. In The Silmarillion they fortify their areas and send scouts to explore Beleriand, and Fingon hikes a long distance, which are all impossible if they can't go anywhere or gather supplies. They also need to be able to hunt, gather, and farm food, and construct warm houses appropriate for the subarctic. The people of Fingolfin clearly have been able to get food and warm houses: they don't act like people who have starved or suffered exposure for 5 years, they go climb mountains and travel long distance to Doriath and to scout Beleriand.

The lake of Mithrim is 50 miles long. There is more than enough space on either side of the lake for the Noldor to hunt, gather, cut wood, farm, and go off to scout without instantly running into an army from the other side and being murdered.
Can you point to an instance where I said that one or two or twelve people at a time could not leave the camps rather than saying the opposite?
 

MithLuin

Administrator
Staff member
If you would like to discuss the settlements around Mithrim, there is this thread that Haerangil started:
https://forums.signumuniversity.org/index.php?threads/noldorian-camps-in-mithrim.3202/#post-26538

As I clarify in that thread, the threat of facing enemy fire when stepping foot outside your encampment was a reference to the war in Afghanistan, not a description of the situation at Mithrim in the early First Age. The camps of Fingolfin and Fëanor are not at war. They are in an uneasy cold war situation, though, where both sides are fearful that the other side will attack. There is a threat of war that both sides are operating under without any actual acts of aggression.

Also, I will point out that it is certainly possible to heat a tent. Syrian refugee camps are mostly tent cities (they are forbidden from building permanent structures), and the winters there are cold enough for snow.

But be that as it may, Fingolfin's camp is certainly going to turn into a permanent settlement over time.
 
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