Session 5-12: Miscellaneous Elves and Villains

[MithLuin]

Session 5-12 will be held on Thursday August 27th at 10 PM.

We will be discussing the minor Elven characters for Season 5 - Thingol, Celeborn and Galadriel, Círdan, Rhogrin, and Annael
We also plan to discuss the Villain storylines - the Catch-and-Release program, Annael's betrayal, fake!Amlach, shifting Angband politics between Glaurung, Sauron, Gothmog, and Morgoth.

 

[Alcarlótë]

For the villain storyline I would like to combine Bragollach preparations (non-explicit, for the viewers), Thuringwethil's (last or second-to-last? We haven't decided when she dies next season) big spying operation, plus going into Huan's life choices and fate that come to the forefront next season.

I haven't written an in-depth account of this plotline yet, but I have worked it out in more detail compared to the brief mentions it got in the sessions so far. Thuringwethil, in the guise of an elf, is sent (either by Sauron on his own or on Morgoth's orders) to the fortifications at the Pass of Aglon, wich is a strategic location: The only way get into Beleriand between the Pass of Sirion and Maglor's Gap. In the texts it is heavily contested before and during the Bragollach. Therefore, she is there to figure out the fortification's weaknesses and gather information about Celegorm's and Curufin's troublesome cavalry force and their plans. If we want to make it more explicitly about Huan at this point we could make him a target of the spying mission as well.

During the course of this mission, Thuringwethil will look around the fortress and stay close to Celegorm and Curufin when they talk about strategic matters. I'm still a bit fuzzy on this next "doom reveal" part, but this is my current idea: Celegorm has a dream about a hunting trip in Valinor with his best friends Aredhel and Huan. Aredhel rides ahead, takes a turn and disappears (maybe into a forest that looks like Nan Elmoth? Into a tunnel that looks like the entrance to Gondolin? Depends on how we handle her storyline in detail). As Celegorm and Huan go looking for her, Huan is suddenly and viciously attacked by a vaguely-shaped giant wolf and yelps in pain (next to a waterfall? Maybe we limit the foreshadowing here.). The dream ends with a short vision of Mandos, looking at the Noldor as he spoke the Prophecy of the North, before Celegorm can react and he wakes up agitated. Huan is there to comfort him, but when Celegorm mentions what happened in the dream, Huan looks sad and turns away to a window looking north, confirming he has insight into that there's some truth to their destined separation. Curufin and Thuringwethil overhear the noise - Curufin goes to visit his brother while Thuringwethil listens silently (Maybe they go somewhere for the conversation and alert her that way? It probably shouldn't look like a totally lucky coincidence that she can hear them at this moment.)

Once again, what they say concerning Aredhel depends on how we handle the knowledge of her fate and the timing of the plotlines, but regarding Huan Celegorm expresses his worries that Huan will be killed by a mighty wolf for going with him and falling under the Doom of the Noldor. This knowledge will be brought to Thuringwethil to Sauron and Morgoth, who figure out Huan's doom and each prepare for it. Sauron wants Draugluin to seek out Huan the next time they battle while Morgoth, without Sauron's (and probably the viewer's, apart from a possible vague hint) knowledge starts raising Carcharoth, a puppy of Draugluin's line, personally to make him into the anti-Huan guardian of Angband.

This sets up the positions the characters will be in during Season 6 and gives us good building blocks for the Bragollach, where the Pass of Aglon falls (at least temporarily) and Celegorm and Curufin flee to arrive at Nargothrond in Season 6. Draugluin won't battle Huan (possbily because Celegorm is afraid and keeps Huan away against Huan's will? It might set up a first rift in their relationship) and their fateful encounter is delayed until they meet at Tol-in-Gaurhoth where it looks like Huan will give his life for Luthien like Finrod gave his for Beren...Except he totally kicks Draugluin and Sauron's behinds and is awesome! Also I kind of want Luthien to kill Thuringwethil at that point, but that's more of a spicy idea for discussions in the far future 😀

 

[Ange1e4e5]

There was some talk about the Pass of Aglon showing up, but talk of that died down.

On Thurwingwethil: I think it’s decided that she dies next season. Luthien could certainly kill her when she cleanses Tol-en-Gaurhoth, maybe she gets crushed when the tower is brought down.

 

[Alcarlótë]

There was some talk about the Pass of Aglon showing up, but talk of that died down.

Oh, I don't recall having read those conversations - I just thought about how we could tie all these aspects of the season together to make it less sprawling and complicated, and since Corey seemed to appreciate the idea of Huan being involved in the story I decided to sit down and work out an outline. Feedback would be very appreciated! I'm relatively new to this project and sure you veterans here have great ideas for improvements when we actually get to the details! =)

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Oh, I don't recall having read those conversations - I just thought about how we could tie all these aspects of the season together to make it less sprawling and complicated, and since Corey seemed to appreciate the idea of Huan being involved in the story I decided to sit down and work out an outline. Feedback would be very appreciated! I'm relatively new to this project and sure you veterans here have great ideas for improvements when we actually get to the details! =)

The context for the Pass of Aglon was for how Hador was going to prove his worth to the Noldor.

 

[Alcarlótë]

The context for the Pass of Aglon was for how Hador was going to prove his worth to the Noldor.

Oh...yeah, I don't really have an idea how to tie that in. But to be fair, I don't have many ideas on what Hador does before the council in general 😀

 

[Kathrin]

Love the idea of some more Thuringwethil action. I wonder though how we're gonna "kill her off" I feel she should get a bit more than the typical Balrog death, or just getting crushed during a battle somewhere off-screen. Maybe she gets sent on a particularly dangerous missions as things heat up, even if she's not really specialised in that, and ends up getting cornered or confronted, and tries to flee and get the info of failure back to Sauron, but gets hunted down while trying to flee? Or something. I just don't see her "just being there" during a battle and then getting unlucky.

 

[Alcarlótë]

Love the idea of some more Thuringwethil action. I wonder though how we're gonna "kill her off" I feel she should get a bit more than the typical Balrog death, or just getting crushed during a battle somewhere off-screen. Maybe she gets sent on a particularly dangerous missions as things heat up, even if she's not really specialised in that, and ends up getting cornered or confronted, and tries to flee and get the info of failure back to Sauron, but gets hunted down while trying to flee? Or something. I just don't see her "just being there" during a battle and then getting unlucky.

There's lots of possibilities, but at the current pace we're probably getting to her death in like a year (because it's happening next Season and this one is far from over) and I'm already impatient...

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Love the idea of some more Thuringwethil action. I wonder though how we're gonna "kill her off" I feel she should get a bit more than the typical Balrog death, or just getting crushed during a battle somewhere off-screen. Maybe she gets sent on a particularly dangerous missions as things heat up, even if she's not really specialised in that, and ends up getting cornered or confronted, and tries to flee and get the info of failure back to Sauron, but gets hunted down while trying to flee? Or something. I just don't see her "just being there" during a battle and then getting unlucky.

Probably not in the four years that Beren is an outlaw, since Beren gets his butt kicked by anything stronger than a giant spider. Maybe Luthien takes her out while on the way to Tol-in(en?) Gaurhoth?

 

[Rhiannon]

Thuringwethil needs to die during Lúthien and Huan’s rescue of Beren from Tol-in-Gaurhoth. How exactly she does so is up to us. We could have a confrontation between her and Lúthien. Perhaps Thuringwethil tries to sneak around and attack Lúthien while Huan is fighting with Draugluin or Sauron. However, we would need to determine how comfortable we are with Lúthien directly killing somebody.

For the villain storyline I would like to combine Bragollach preparations (non-explicit, for the viewers), Thuringwethil's (last or second-to-last? We haven't decided when she dies next season) big spying operation, plus going into Huan's life choices and fate that come to the forefront next season.

I haven't written an in-depth account of this plotline yet, but I have worked it out in more detail compared to the brief mentions it got in the sessions so far. Thuringwethil, in the guise of an elf, is sent (either by Sauron on his own or on Morgoth's orders) to the fortifications at the Pass of Aglon, wich is a strategic location: The only way get into Beleriand between the Pass of Sirion and Maglor's Gap. In the texts it is heavily contested before and during the Bragollach. Therefore, she is there to figure out the fortification's weaknesses and gather information about Celegorm's and Curufin's troublesome cavalry force and their plans. If we want to make it more explicitly about Huan at this point we could make him a target of the spying mission as well.

During the course of this mission, Thuringwethil will look around the fortress and stay close to Celegorm and Curufin when they talk about strategic matters. I'm still a bit fuzzy on this next "doom reveal" part, but this is my current idea: Celegorm has a dream about a hunting trip in Valinor with his best friends Aredhel and Huan. Aredhel rides ahead, takes a turn and disappears (maybe into a forest that looks like Nan Elmoth? Into a tunnel that looks like the entrance to Gondolin? Depends on how we handle her storyline in detail). As Celegorm and Huan go looking for her, Huan is suddenly and viciously attacked by a vaguely-shaped giant wolf and yelps in pain (next to a waterfall? Maybe we limit the foreshadowing here.). The dream ends with a short vision of Mandos, looking at the Noldor as he spoke the Prophecy of the North, before Celegorm can react and he wakes up agitated. Huan is there to comfort him, but when Celegorm mentions what happened in the dream, Huan looks sad and turns away to a window looking north, confirming he has insight into that there's some truth to their destined separation. Curufin and Thuringwethil overhear the noise - Curufin goes to visit his brother while Thuringwethil listens silently (Maybe they go somewhere for the conversation and alert her that way? It probably shouldn't look like a totally lucky coincidence that she can hear them at this moment.)

Once again, what they say concerning Aredhel depends on how we handle the knowledge of her fate and the timing of the plotlines, but regarding Huan Celegorm expresses his worries that Huan will be killed by a mighty wolf for going with him and falling under the Doom of the Noldor. This knowledge will be brought to Thuringwethil to Sauron and Morgoth, who figure out Huan's doom and each prepare for it. Sauron wants Draugluin to seek out Huan the next time they battle while Morgoth, without Sauron's (and probably the viewer's, apart from a possible vague hint) knowledge starts raising Carcharoth, a puppy of Draugluin's line, personally to make him into the anti-Huan guardian of Angband.

This sets up the positions the characters will be in during Season 6 and gives us good building blocks for the Bragollach, where the Pass of Aglon falls (at least temporarily) and Celegorm and Curufin flee to arrive at Nargothrond in Season 6. Draugluin won't battle Huan (possbily because Celegorm is afraid and keeps Huan away against Huan's will? It might set up a first rift in their relationship) and their fateful encounter is delayed until they meet at Tol-in-Gaurhoth where it looks like Huan will give his life for Luthien like Finrod gave his for Beren...Except he totally kicks Draugluin and Sauron's behinds and is awesome! Also I kind of want Luthien to kill Thuringwethil at that point, but that's more of a spicy idea for discussions in the far future 😀

I like the idea of giving Thuringwethil more spy work to do this season, and it would be a good idea for her to be the one to hear about Huan‘s prophecy because then she would be right there to remind Sauron of it when Lúthien and Huan are attacking Tol-in-Gaurhoth. However, I’m not in favor of Celegorm learning about this prophecy through a dream. Presumably, this dream would be sent by the Valar. Why would Celegorm, of all people, receive a warning from the Valar when a major plot point this season is going to be that the Fëanorians need to repent in order to get aid from the Valar? Why would the dream come to Celegorm now instead of back in Valinor or next season, closer to Huan‘s actual confrontation with Draugluin? Also, Huan knows about his doom, and Celegorm can understand Huan, so I’m not sure word of it needs to come from any other source.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Thuringwethil needs to die during Lúthien and Huan’s rescue of Beren from Tol-in-Gaurhoth. How exactly she does so is up to us. We could have a confrontation between her and Lúthien. Perhaps Thuringwethil tries to sneak around and attack Lúthien while Huan is fighting with Draugluin or Sauron. However, we would need to determine how comfortable we are with Lúthien directly killing somebody.



I like the idea of giving Thuringwethil more spy work to do this season, and it would be a good idea for her to be the one to hear about Huan‘s prophecy because then she would be right there to remind Sauron of it when Lúthien and Huan are attacking Tol-in-Gaurhoth. However, I’m not in favor of Celegorm learning about this prophecy through a dream. Presumably, this dream would be sent by the Valar. Why would Celegorm, of all people, receive a warning from the Valar when a major plot point this season is going to be that the Fëanorians need to repent in order to get aid from the Valar? Why would the dream come to Celegorm now instead of back in Valinor or next season, closer to Huan‘s actual confrontation with Draugluin? Also, Huan knows about his doom, and Celegorm can understand Huan, so I’m not sure word of it needs to come from any other source.

Unless Thurwingwethil was dead by Beren and Lúthien (and it would have to be recent if her skin could be used), I think Lúthien killed Thurwingwethil when she brought down the tower; maybe she gets a brick dropped on her head.

 

[Alcarlótë]

I like the idea of giving Thuringwethil more spy work to do this season, and it would be a good idea for her to be the one to hear about Huan‘s prophecy because then she would be right there to remind Sauron of it when Lúthien and Huan are attacking Tol-in-Gaurhoth. However, I’m not in favor of Celegorm learning about this prophecy through a dream. Presumably, this dream would be sent by the Valar. Why would Celegorm, of all people, receive a warning from the Valar when a major plot point this season is going to be that the Fëanorians need to repent in order to get aid from the Valar? Why would the dream come to Celegorm now instead of back in Valinor or next season, closer to Huan‘s actual confrontation with Draugluin? Also, Huan knows about his doom, and Celegorm can understand Huan, so I’m not sure word of it needs to come from any other source.

True, there's a precendent for dreams to be sent by the Valar...and of course Celegorm wouldn't be sent this information by the Valar for the reasons you pointed out! I intended it to be an instance of foresightedness that Elves tend to experience in important matters, but this kind of foresight shouldn't be confused with Valar intervention by the viewers, so it would need to happen another way.

But Huan's Doom itself or that he knows it hasn't been established yet - even the scenes I suggested for Huan during the Flight of the Noldor only hint at it, which might not be enough after all? I would be happy with moving the Doom back to Season 3, but I wasn't sure if we can just insert major plot points like that retroactively. For now we're in Season 5, and intuitively I dislike keeping the Doom hidden until Season 6 - that will make it look contrived and convenient in my opinion. It works in the book because Huan is introduced in the Beren and Luthien story, but he has been on SilmFilm for many seasons as an awesome, seemingly invincible dog and now we're introducing this weakness of his a few episodes before it becomes his downfall? I'd rather have it as a plot point relevant to the Bragollach and then have it come up in Season 6 as something that is already there.

About Huan knowing it - we can do that certainly! It doesn't need to be happening the way I described it, there's probably better ways to tell this story. Only the "Speak three times" thing was assigned to Orome in Season 3 - which was a long time ago - but Huan will mention to Luthien in Season 6. So, we're missing his "Dying against the mightiest werewolf" doom. We would need a scene where Celegorm and Huan are somehow motivated to talk about this topic, which is doable - the issue I see with that is, why does it come up only now? Huan already took part in multiple dangerous battles but suddenly decides to talk about it? When and how did he learn about it? Maybe he feels like his doom is slowly approaching or something...I don't mind this solution in principle, but I see problems with it that need to be adressed.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

True, there's a precendent for dreams to be sent by the Valar...and of course Celegorm wouldn't be sent this information by the Valar for the reasons you pointed out! I intended it to be an instance of foresightedness that Elves tend to experience in important matters, but this kind of foresight shouldn't be confused with Valar intervention by the viewers, so it would need to happen another way.

But Huan's Doom itself or that he knows it hasn't been established yet - even the scenes I suggested for Huan during the Flight of the Noldor only hint at it, which might not be enough after all? I would be happy with moving the Doom back to Season 3, but I wasn't sure if we can just insert major plot points like that retroactively. For now we're in Season 5, and intuitively I dislike keeping the Doom hidden until Season 6 - that will make it look contrived and convenient in my opinion. It works in the book because Huan is introduced in the Beren and Luthien story, but he has been on SilmFilm for many seasons as an awesome, seemingly invincible dog and now we're introducing this weakness of his a few episodes before it becomes his downfall? I'd rather have it as a plot point relevant to the Bragollach and then have it come up in Season 6 as something that is already there.

About Huan knowing it - we can do that certainly! It doesn't need to be happening the way I described it, there's probably better ways to tell this story. Only the "Speak three times" thing was assigned to Orome in Season 3 - which was a long time ago - but Huan will mention to Luthien in Season 6. So, we're missing his "Dying against the mightiest werewolf" doom. We would need a scene where Celegorm and Huan are somehow motivated to talk about this topic, which is doable - the issue I see with that is, why does it come up only now? Huan already took part in multiple dangerous battles but suddenly decides to talk about it? When and how did he learn about it? Maybe he feels like his doom is slowly approaching or something...I don't mind this solution in principle, but I see problems with it that need to be adressed.

How can Celegorm and Huan talk about it? Huan can only speak three times, and it’s already established when those points are.

 

[Alcarlótë]

How can Celegorm and Huan talk about it? Huan can only speak three times, and it’s already established when those points are.

Celegorm understands Doggyrin - the only hurdle is that the audience can't understand Huan, so Celegorm needs someone else to talk to about what Huan said unless Celegorm convienently repeats Huan's statement in his reply.

 

[Alcarlótë]

Concerning Gil-Galad, I'd like input from the podcast hosts on when and how they envision his early years because we basically have a blank slate on that (apart from the one sentence about Gil-Galad being sent to Cirdan later on, but Christopher added that and mistakenly made him Fingon's son) and it seems like there's not much of a consensus here.

My current proposal is that he's born at Minas Tirith some years before the Beorians leave Nargothrond, so young Gil-Galad meets young Barahir when the Beorians are coming through the Pass of Sirion. During the Dagor Bragollach, Gil-Galad is deemed too young and inexperienced enough to fight (which works timeline-wise if he matures slowly and his parents are sufficently concerned about his safety, as they are in the Silmarillion). He sneaks out of Minas Tirith and meets up with Finrod's force that gets surrounded by the enemy before Barahir rescues them (who at this point is like 40-60 years old? Not sure exactly). This would set up Gil-Galad's boldness as a reason for his parent's protectiveness (which might play into him not dying in the Ruin of Nargothrond like his father) and fit with his eventual death battling Sauron personally. Also, it would really pay off the theme of differences in worldview between Elves and Men, that we're trying to emphasize this season, storywise. I don't have firm ideas on what or how much they'd say to each other the two times they meet, but how different they're aging and living would be a great showcase for Elvish and Mannish outlooks on life.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

Concerning Gil-Galad, I'd like input from the podcast hosts on when and how they envision his early years because we basically have a blank slate on that (apart from the one sentence about Gil-Galad being sent to Cirdan later on, but Christopher added that and mistakenly made him Fingon's son) and it seems like there's not much of a consensus here.

My current proposal is that he's born at Minas Tirith some years before the Beorians leave Nargothrond, so young Gil-Galad meets young Barahir when the Beorians are coming through the Pass of Sirion. During the Dagor Bragollach, Gil-Galad is deemed too young and inexperienced enough to fight (which works timeline-wise if he matures slowly and his parents are sufficently concerned about his safety, as they are in the Silmarillion). He sneaks out of Minas Tirith and meets up with Finrod's force that gets surrounded by the enemy before Barahir rescues them (who at this point is like 40-60 years old? Not sure exactly). This would set up Gil-Galad's boldness as a reason for his parent's protectiveness (which might play into him not dying in the Ruin of Nargothrond like his father) and fit with his eventual death battling Sauron personally. Also, it would really pay off the theme of differences in worldview between Elves and Men, that we're trying to emphasize this season, storywise. I don't have firm ideas on what or how much they'd say to each other the two times they meet, but how different they're aging and living would be a great showcase for Elvish and Mannish outlooks on life.

So where would he go from there?

 

[Alcarlótë]

So where would he go from there?

Well he would probably end up in Nargothrond, at the latest after Minas Tirith falls. How we build on this in Season 6 and beyond is a future topic, but he could meet Beren and Luthien, and in the Turin story he might play a part in Nargothrond politics. Considering how long Gil-Galad lasts in our show, that's some great potential for future interactions and links between the First and later Ages!

 

[MithLuin]

Feedback would be very appreciated! I'm relatively new to this project and sure you veterans here have great ideas for improvements when we actually get to the details! =)

To clarify, those discussions were here on the boards, not in the podcast, really. It was a suggestion that came up while we were talking about ideas for the Houses of Men, and incorporating Tolkien's story of the attack on the Pass of Aglon seemed like a good idea for several reasons. In the end, we did not work that into any of the stories - Bëor and his House are decidedly sheltered from war, and Hador is winning renown with Fingon in the west. That doesn't mean we can't include that idea in other stories, but it does mean that it will be important to tie the story into other existing storylines in this busy season. Which you did by bringing up Aredhel - she is meant to visit the Feanorean stronghold at the Pass of Aglon before going to Nan Elmoth. And while we didn't talk about that rest stop when we discussed her story last session, we did establish that she is going to develop this entire idea of fostering a relationship with the dwarves, and that idea requires contact with Feanoreans and dwarves to learn the current political climate...preferably prior to Nan Elmoth. So if Aredhel arrives while Celegorm and Curufin are out, she could meet 'Gwilwilith', a member of Celegorm's household. The audience may recall that this is Thuringwethil in disguise, though Aredhel would have no way of knowing that. Then, we would have the later story of the attack on the stockade. How does an army of orcs get into Thargelion? They had to breach the Feanorean siege line somehow...so why not have it be at Aglon due to Thuringwethil spying? That gives us a chance to have a minor Feanorean story over the course of that episode, rather than just have Caranthir come out of nowhere at the end. Celegorm talking about Huan's fate can come up then somehow, and we have a reason for Thuringwethil to be around. So, I think it is possible to work with your suggestion here, now that we are talking about the Villains storylines.

As for inserting events into earlier seasons - typically no, but it's not like we have dialogue written for Celegorm's attack on the wolves at the Fens of Sirion in Season 3. So nuance and details can be added, if the Execs think it important. I definitely think it worth establishing that the villains know of Huan's fate here in Season 5.

 

[Ange1e4e5]

To clarify, those discussions were here on the boards, not in the podcast, really. It was a suggestion that came up while we were talking about ideas for the Houses of Men, and incorporating Tolkien's story of the attack on the Pass of Aglon seemed like a good idea for several reasons. In the end, we did not work that into any of the stories - Bëor and his House are decidedly sheltered from war, and Hador is winning renown with Fingon in the west. That doesn't mean we can't include that idea in other stories, but it does mean that it will be important to tie the story into other existing storylines in this busy season. Which you did by bringing up Aredhel - she is meant to visit the Feanorean stronghold at the Pass of Aglon before going to Nan Elmoth. And while we didn't talk about that rest stop when we discussed her story last session, we did establish that she is going to develop this entire idea of fostering a relationship with the dwarves, and that idea requires contact with Feanoreans and dwarves to learn the current political climate...preferably prior to Nan Elmoth. So if Aredhel arrives while Celegorm and Curufin are out, she could meet 'Gwilwilith', a member of Celegorm's household. The audience may recall that this is Thuringwethil in disguise, though Aredhel would have no way of knowing that. Then, we would have the later story of the attack on the stockade. How does an army of orcs get into Thargelion? They had to breach the Feanorean siege line somehow...so why not have it be at Aglon due to Thuringwethil spying? That gives us a chance to have a minor Feanorean story over the course of that episode, rather than just have Caranthir come out of nowhere at the end. Celegorm talking about Huan's fate can come up then somehow, and we have a reason for Thuringwethil to be around. So, I think it is possible to work with your suggestion here, now that we are talking about the Villains storylines.

As for inserting events into earlier seasons - typically no, but it's not like we have dialogue written for Celegorm's attack on the wolves at the Fens of Sirion in Season 3. So nuance and details can be added, if the Execs think it important. I definitely think it worth establishing that the villains know of Huan's fate here in Season 5.

For Villains’ storylines, maybe Gothmog could be behind the stockade battle? Since we’ve switched around the Council and the assault on the Gelion-Ascar stockade, Sauron would still be in the middle of his plot to subvert the House of Hador and direct assault is not on the table quite yet. That way, Morgoth and Glaurung could be the architects behind the Dagor Bragollach.

 

[Alcarlótë]

To clarify, those discussions were here on the boards, not in the podcast, really. It was a suggestion that came up while we were talking about ideas for the Houses of Men, and incorporating Tolkien's story of the attack on the Pass of Aglon seemed like a good idea for several reasons. In the end, we did not work that into any of the stories - Bëor and his House are decidedly sheltered from war, and Hador is winning renown with Fingon in the west.

I think that course of action makes sense - the Edain don't really have any business with the Feanorians apart from Amlach joining Maedhros and Caranthir rescuing Haleth and her people, but that's pretty short-lived considering she rejects his offer and leads her people on an unnecessary and deadly journey. The Feanorians can have more of their own Men in the next seasons.

That doesn't mean we can't include that idea in other stories, but it does mean that it will be important to tie the story into other existing storylines in this busy season. Which you did by bringing up Aredhel - she is meant to visit the Feanorean stronghold at the Pass of Aglon before going to Nan Elmoth. And while we didn't talk about that rest stop when we discussed her story last session, we did establish that she is going to develop this entire idea of fostering a relationship with the dwarves, and that idea requires contact with Feanoreans and dwarves to learn the current political climate...preferably prior to Nan Elmoth. So if Aredhel arrives while Celegorm and Curufin are out, she could meet 'Gwilwilith', a member of Celegorm's household. The audience may recall that this is Thuringwethil in disguise, though Aredhel would have no way of knowing that. Then, we would have the later story of the attack on the stockade. How does an army of orcs get into Thargelion? They had to breach the Feanorean siege line somehow...so why not have it be at Aglon due to Thuringwethil spying? That gives us a chance to have a minor Feanorean story over the course of that episode, rather than just have Caranthir come out of nowhere at the end. Celegorm talking about Huan's fate can come up then somehow, and we have a reason for Thuringwethil to be around. So, I think it is possible to work with your suggestion here, now that we are talking about the Villains storylines.

Oh, these are great ideas! Having Aredhel visit directly and having Thuringwethil enable the orc attack on the Haladin help to explain certain events and ties all the various plots neatly together. It's the setup needed for the "Doom of Huan" storyline I outlined above to actually be an organic part of this season - and gives it more depth. Great teamwork! =)

Huan's fate could even be tied into the worldview theme of the season, because he has a pretty unique perspective - he's immortal and apparently unkillable until his fateful encounter with the mightiest wolf, where he will die and perish for good. Unlike Men or Elves, animals like him don't have a feä to continue to exist in some way - which might be very relatable to our audience.

As for inserting events into earlier seasons - typically no, but it's not like we have dialogue written for Celegorm's attack on the wolves at the Fens of Sirion in Season 3. So nuance and details can be added, if the Execs think it important. I definitely think it worth establishing that the villains know of Huan's fate here in Season 5.

That makes sense - there's certainly some details and nuance Huan could use in past seasons. Personally, I think retroactively inserting something important like his Doom is too much considering the past Seasons have been worked out without it. I wouldn't be strictly against handling it like that - but for now, we have to assume it's not been brought up until now, until the podcast hosts and/or we here on the boards commit to declaring it as always having been there at a level below that of the script outlines.